🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <3oe27r$o6k@kocrsv08.delcoelect.com>,
Alan Anderson <aranders@kosepc01.delcoelect.com> wrote:
>c2xrib@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com (rex i beard) writes:
>>We have a tremendous debt because we didn't spend *enough* money!!?
>
>I respond:
>>No, because we didn't INVEST enough money.  Pay attention.  The phrase
>>"eating our seed corn" is a good soundbite; listen to it.
>
>Rex asks:
>>What is it you want to invest *MY* seed corn in? AT&T? Listening for
>>space aliens? Perpetual Motion machines? Cold Fusion? Bonds? Super
>>computers?
>
>If you get to KEEP your seed corn, then YOU can decide.  The problem
>is not so much the lack of investment by the government, it's the
>drain of resources caused by "entitlement" programs which suck up
>what could otherwise have been invested by non-government entities.

In that I agree. "Entitlements" suck up the most resources by far.
And that is the stuff that could be invested privately.

>
>>[...] Giving to the poor *does* produce
>>wealth. It makes those who give it happy. And that *is* wealth.
>
>I don't agree.  Happiness is NOT wealth, wealth is NOT happiness.

Well, the only benefit I get from going to a movie is when
you boil it down, "happiness". And wealth was created by the
film maker. The makers of a film that no one goes to see haven't
produced any wealth.

>Giving money to the poor effectively subsidizes poverty, and when
>you subsidize something you get more of it as a result.  So these

Absolutely. Likewise if we give money to McDonalds we get more Big Macs.

>supposedly wonderful social programs have turned into a mechanism
>for maintaining and creating poverty.

But there is wealth in my charitable contributions. I am made
happier by giving and helping. I could give $5 to see a movie or
I could give $5 to Habitat for Humanity. I choose the one that gives
me the most pleasure.

>>There is no "stuff", but neither is there "stuff" in the wealth
>>of the services industry.
>
>This is arguably true for some services, but I see a lot of value
>being maintained (and sometimes created) by many services.  Your

Perhaps entertainment industry is better than service industry.

>ditch-digger "shovels and gloves and doctors and drugs" argument
>goes against you here.  You've misread my emphasis -- I said:
>> Right.  We GET stuff.  Understand?  There is a real BENEFIT.
>I emphasized GET and BENEFIT, not "stuff".  "We at large" don't

No, there isn't any stuff.

>get anything from simply giving money to other people.  If they

Then why do we do it? We get the pleasure of helping others,
relief from a guilty conscience, and a promised place in heaven.

Many people still get these benefits from all the money given to welfare
programs. Otherwise they wouldn't vote for them.

>simply dig and refill ditches or make and break clay stones, the
>net result is WORSE than zero.  You've wasted their time which
>they could otherwise have put to constructive use.

And that is what NASA is doing. They are making stuff and using that
stuff up. (Most of it. But I can make a clay rock museum and televise
the rock throwing parties too.)
What "stuff" do we get? I haven't gotten anything.

I have gotten benefits:
National pride, Neat pictures, interesting information, indirectly
through products helped by spinoffs, entertainment from museums.

But there are benefits from the clay rock makers/breakers:
Pride? (maybe somebody). Certainly neat pictures (can't you see all
those fools throwing clay rocks?) Entertainment. I could even build
a museum. Who knows there could be spinoffs better clay? And
even the benefit of knowing underprivilaged folks got a job where they
could learn to show up for work everyday.

NASA has diverted the energies of some very skilled and ambitious people.
This is a great loss. Imagine what they could have done elsewhere?

My clay rocks diverts the energies of some odd balls, not as great a loss
but some.

Now personally I think there is more benefit in what NASA has done.
Most people would think the same, but all the folks who would prefer
to divert NASA funds to social programs, don't.

My point is, yes you're building stuff, but is it stuff people want?

-rex-
-- 

Work phone: (317) 451-0358  (8-322-0358)
Internet:   c2xrib@kocrsv01.delcoelect.com   (Ick. It's suppose to be ahw.)