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In article <1993Jan4.202421.11388@cs.ucf.edu> clarke@acme.ucf.edu (Thomas Clarke) writes:
>In article <1993Jan4.171213.11272@ke4zv.uucp> gary@ke4zv.uucp (Gary Coffman)  
>writes:
>> In article <ewright.725666125@convex.convex.com> ewright@convex.com (Edward  
>V. Wright) writes:
>> >
>> Most engineering *is* paperwork, or workstation work today. Otherwise
>> it's just tinkering on a wing and a prayer. You have to bend metal to
>> *test* your engineering, but bending metal *isn't* engineering. It's
>> fabrication done by tradesmen.
>
>I can't let this go by.  This is a common attitude in America.  It
>leads to low pay for production engineers and inefficient production
>methods etc. etc.  Result is the current economic morass with most 
>production going overseas.  
>
>I think engineering must consider how something is to be made.  The
>most elegant design is useless if it can't be manufactured.  
>Knowledge of what can be made is obtained by bending metal, or
>at least by interacting with those who do.

I'm not disparaging skilled tradesmen, in fact I usually hold them
in higher regard than most engineers. Engineers would benefit by
*listening* to them more often. But hammering metal is a skilled
trade, not engineering. Good engineers take production requirements
into account in their designs, bad ones don't. Production engineers
do time and motion, setup optimized assembly lines, and natter about
workgroups and just in time subassembly deliveries. Those are important
in some mass production facilities, but good design engineers make or
break production at the very beginning of the development cycle. Ease
of assembly and ease of field service have to be designed in from the
very beginning of a product. Having design engineers apprentice on
the shop floor for a few years *before* they get to design a product
would do a world of good for our manufacturing sector. It certainly
has for the Japanese and old school Germans.

Gary


-- 
Gary Coffman KE4ZV          |    You make it,     | gatech!wa4mei!ke4zv!gary
Destructive Testing Systems |    we break it.     | uunet!rsiatl!ke4zv!gary
534 Shannon Way             |    Guaranteed!      | emory!kd4nc!ke4zv!gary      
Lawrenceville, GA 30244     |                     | emory!ke4zv!gary@gatech.edu