Thread View: sci.stat.math
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Started by Jon Dodd
Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:00
Help: is there a solution to this?
Author: Jon Dodd
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:00
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 1998 00:00
87 lines
3885 bytes
3885 bytes
Hi, I wonder if any of you could help me with what might be a trivial problem and might not be. I am not a mathematician so don't have a clue where to start. The problem is this: (apologies if it seems long winded) I use a non-parametric statistic based on signal detection theory (ROC analysis) to give a measure of the distinctivness(overlap) of 2 distributions of numbers. The method is really straightforward and I provide a simple example below. distribution 1 (d1): 1 2 4 6 7 distribution 2 (d2): 3 5 8 9 10 for above: nd1 = 5 (number of observations in d1) nd2 = 5 (number of observations in d2) N = nd1 + nd2 = 10 (total number of observations) In order to generate the measure you step through an increasing criterion and plot the proportion of d1 which is >= the criterion v the proportion of d2 which is >= the criterion. for the above distributions this would be: crit p(1) p(2) 0 1.0 1.0 1 1.0 1.0 2 0.8 1.0 3 0.6 1.0 4 0.6 0.8 5 0.4 0.8 6 0.4 0.6 7 0.2 0.6 8 0.0 0.6 9 0.0 0.4 10 0.0 0.2 11 0.0 0.0 The area under the curve on the plot of p(1) v p(2) on a unit square gives the measure: in this case = 0.2. So the possible range of values is 0.0 - 1.0; a value of 0 or 1 indicates that both distributions are completely unoverlaping wheras a value of 0.5 indicates that the distributions are identical. The problem I have is in assessing a significance level for the value I obtain from the above type analysis given nd1 and nd2 can be of any length and unequal. What I currently do is feed the values of d1 and d2 into a computer and generate a distibution of possible values which could be obtained by keeping the number of values in each distribution the same but randomising which distribution any particuar value is assigned to (repeated about 4000 times). The distribution is then used to give the confidence limits of whether my actual observed value arose by chance or not. The generated distribution looks pretty normal with mean 0.5. The varience decreases with increasing total number of measures (N) and increases as the tw0distributions get more unequal in length (as |nd1-nd2| increases) My question (finally!) is this. Given that there are really only 2 variables which change: nd1 and nd2 (as the actual numbers are just ranked anyway) Is there a mathematical solution which could give the distribution of all possible values from random assignment to d1 or d2 without having to run the simulation several thousand times. I could then use the curve from this equation to test for significance. Many thanks in advance for any help and apologies if this is a longwinded problem with a trivial solution. -- ============================================== Jon Dodd Department of Physiology; University of Oxford Parks Road; Oxford; OX1 3PT tel 01865-282483; fax 01865-272469 http://waller.physiol.ox.ac.uk/~jvd ==============================================
Re: Help: is there a solution to this?
Author: Charles Metz
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:00
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 1998 00:00
47 lines
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2467 bytes
Jon Dodd wrote: > I wonder if any of you could help me with what might be a > trivial problem and might not be. I am not a mathematician > so don't have a clue where to start. --snip-- > I use a non-parametric statistic based on signal detection > theory (ROC analysis) to give a measure of the > distinctivness(overlap) of 2 distributions of numbers. > The method is really straightforward and I provide a > simple example below. --snip-- > The problem I have is in assessing a significance level > for the value I obtain from the above type analysis given > nd1 and nd2 can be of any length and unequal. --snip-- Calculation of standard errors for non-parametric ROC-area index estimates was discussed in: Bamber D. The area above the ordinal dominance graph and the area below the receiver operating graph. Journal of Mathemaical Psychology 1975; 12: 387. and later in: Hanley JA, McNeil BJ. The meaning and use of the area under a receiver operating characteristic (ROC) curve. Radiology 1982; 143: 29. An approach for testing the statistical significance of differences between independent index estimates was described in the paper by Hanley and McNeil listed above, whereas techniques for testing differences between correlated index estimates can be found in: Hanley JA, McNeil BJ. A method of comparing the areas under receiver operating characteristic curves derived from the same cases. Radiology 1983; 148: 839. and in: DeLong ER, DeLong DM, Clarke-Pearson DL. Comparing the areas under two or more correlated receiver operating characteristic curves: a nonparametric approach. Biometrics 1988; 44: 837. Charles Metz
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