🚀 go-pugleaf

In soc.history.medieval DP <x36xxq@hotmail.com> wrote in <9522418d.0306231128.54992e4b@posting.google.com>:
: Does anyone know of any texts that would have been available to an
: 11th-century reader that discuss qualities of kings or otherwise could
: be useful for a young prince/lord to read as part of his education?

: Thanks in advance!
: DP

this is a bit of exotica, but qutad*gh*u bilig ("the knowledge that brings 
happiness" or perhaps better "felicity") describing an ideal monarchy was 
sopposed to be just that (at least for Turks). It was written in eastern 
turkic (more precisely qaraxanid, similar to the uyghur of the time 
except for the perso-arabic vocabulary), completed in 462 AH / 1069-70 CE
in kashghar by yu:suf xa:SS Ha:jib of balasa*gh*un (Chamberlain Yusuf of 
Balasaghun).

see Enc. of Islam II "Kutadghu Bilig"

Yusuf B Gursey <ybg@TheWorld.com> wrote
> : Does anyone know of any texts that would have been available to an
> : 11th-century reader that discuss qualities of kings or otherwise could
> : be useful for a young prince/lord to read as part of his education?

> this is a bit of exotica, but qutad*gh*u bilig ("the knowledge that brings 
> happiness" or perhaps better "felicity") describing an ideal monarchy was 
> sopposed to be just that (at least for Turks). It was written in eastern 
> turkic (more precisely qaraxanid, similar to the uyghur of the time 
> except for the perso-arabic vocabulary), completed in 462 AH / 1069-70 CE
> in kashghar by yu:suf xa:SS Ha:jib of balasa*gh*un (Chamberlain Yusuf of 
> Balasaghun).
> 
> see Enc. of Islam II "Kutadghu Bilig"

While we're at the exotic, I suppose we can add the Siy�satn�me ("on
Politics") by Nizam l Mulk of Tus. Fascinating reading, conceived as a
guide for a (future) ruler. Written toward the end of that century;
there is a French translation as far as I know (1895). Yusuf would
know if it was likely to be available to anyone in the East during the
11th C.

azythos2@mail.com (mb) wrote in message news:<c5d8a9d0.0306241315.111c748a@posting.google.com>...
> Yusuf B Gursey <ybg@TheWorld.com> wrote
> > : Does anyone know of any texts that would have been available to an
> > : 11th-century reader that discuss qualities of kings or otherwise could
> > : be useful for a young prince/lord to read as part of his education?
>  
> > this is a bit of exotica, but qutad*gh*u bilig ("the knowledge that brings 
> > happiness" or perhaps better "felicity") describing an ideal monarchy was 
> > sopposed to be just that (at least for Turks). It was written in eastern 
> > turkic (more precisely qaraxanid, similar to the uyghur of the time 
> > except for the perso-arabic vocabulary), completed in 462 AH / 1069-70 CE
> > in kashghar by yu:suf xa:SS Ha:jib of balasa*gh*un (Chamberlain Yusuf of 
> > Balasaghun).
> > 
> > see Enc. of Islam II "Kutadghu Bilig"
> 
> While we're at the exotic, I suppose we can add the Siy�satn�me ("on
> Politics") by Nizam l Mulk of Tus. Fascinating reading, conceived as a
> guide for a (future) ruler. Written toward the end of that century;
> there is a French translation as far as I know (1895). Yusuf would
> know if it was likely to be available to anyone in the East during the
> 11th C.

(available at the very end)

such works seem to have been quite common in the islamic world. two
other similar persian works in the same century were produced by
similar people.
the siya:sat-na:ma is called "intended as a primer for monarchs" (EI2
"Nizam al-Mulk"). there were also many other works (so it was a
"genre") in arabic produced before (and after) th e 11th cent. as well
as translations from greek, discussed in EI2 "Nasihat al-Muluk". more
philosophical is al-FArAbi: who wrote a lot on political philosophy
and theory, commented on Plato's "Republic," coined a term for
"political science" (al-3ilm al- madaniyy, litt. just so in the arabic
of the time). after the 11th there was the conservative religous ibn
taymiyya (still liked by contemporary reactionaries) and the secular
oriented ibn khaldun. see EI2 "Siyasa"

In a long letter to her son Francis II of France, Catherine de Medici
advises him on the art of kingship as practiced by her dead husband Henri II
and previous kings.  This letter written in 1563 no doubt was intended to
prop up a weak kingship which saw the introduction of the French "Wars of
Religion" in which warring nobles used the pretext of religion to advance
their ambitions, not ending until the accession of Henri IV in about 1590.

This letter and many other translated documents of this period
(contemporaneous with the reign of Elizabeth I of England) is presented in a
paperback "The French Wars of Religion, Selected Documents" by David Potter,
ISBN 0 333 69340-X. Page 14.











"Yusuf B Gursey" <ybg@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
news:bd8s9i$ck6$1@pcls4.std.com...
> In soc.history.medieval DP <x36xxq@hotmail.com> wrote in
<9522418d.0306231128.54992e4b@posting.google.com>:
> : Does anyone know of any texts that would have been available to an
> : 11th-century reader that discuss qualities of kings or otherwise could
> : be useful for a young prince/lord to read as part of his education?
>
> : Thanks in advance!
> : DP
>
> this is a bit of exotica, but qutad*gh*u bilig ("the knowledge that brings
> happiness" or perhaps better "felicity") describing an ideal monarchy was
> sopposed to be just that (at least for Turks). It was written in eastern
> turkic (more precisely qaraxanid, similar to the uyghur of the time
> except for the perso-arabic vocabulary), completed in 462 AH / 1069-70 CE
> in kashghar by yu:suf xa:SS Ha:jib of balasa*gh*un (Chamberlain Yusuf of
> Balasaghun).
>
> see Enc. of Islam II "Kutadghu Bilig"

"Frank Martin" <frank@general.com.au> wrote in message news:<bdlfid$1tvg$2@otis.netspace.net.au>...
> In a long letter to her son Francis II of France, Catherine de Medici
> advises him on the art of kingship as practiced by her dead husband Henri II
> and previous kings.  This letter written in 1563 no doubt was intended to
> prop up a weak kingship which saw the introduction of the French "Wars of
> Religion" in which warring nobles used the pretext of religion to advance
> their ambitions, not ending until the accession of Henri IV in about 1590.
> 
> This letter and many other translated documents of this period
> (contemporaneous with the reign of Elizabeth I of England) is presented in a
> paperback "The French Wars of Religion, Selected Documents" by David Potter,
> ISBN 0 333 69340-X. Page 14.


in the 17th cent. and onwards the only option for an ottoman prince
was to learn statecraft while being sequestered in the Harem. this was
the price to be paid for not being murdered at the outset of the
succession of their brothers. it is quite evident that many skipped
their homework or were too crazed to follow it all :) (no kidding,
some were actually declared insane). in approx. the 17th cent. a
series of young sultans meant power was in hands of their mothers (of
christian concubine origin; turkish Valide Sultan: Queen Mother). I am
told one of these powerful Valide's actually corresponded with
Catherine de Medici.

prior to that princes were given governorships or army commands and
they had to be quick to claim their right, as succession was not
orderly. IIRC Amasya (in Anatolia) was a favorite spot given for the
governorship of a crown pince.

in the 19th cent. the sequesterization was relaxed and by the end of
the century some princes were involved in politics.

shortly after the 1908 constitutional revolution the Imperial Harem
was itself abolished as an institution. shortly befoe WWI at Enver
Pasha's urging princes had to make their ways up the ranks of the
officer crops. shortly after , the Empire itself disappeared.


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> "Yusuf B Gursey" <ybg@TheWorld.com> wrote in message
> news:bd8s9i$ck6$1@pcls4.std.com...
> > In soc.history.medieval DP <x36xxq@hotmail.com> wrote in
>  <9522418d.0306231128.54992e4b@posting.google.com>:
> > : Does anyone know of any texts that would have been available to an
> > : 11th-century reader that discuss qualities of kings or otherwise could
> > : be useful for a young prince/lord to read as part of his education?
>  
> > : Thanks in advance!
> > : DP
> >
> > this is a bit of exotica, but qutad*gh*u bilig ("the knowledge that brings
> > happiness" or perhaps better "felicity") describing an ideal monarchy was
> > sopposed to be just that (at least for Turks). It was written in eastern
> > turkic (more precisely qaraxanid, similar to the uyghur of the time
> > except for the perso-arabic vocabulary), completed in 462 AH / 1069-70 CE
> > in kashghar by yu:suf xa:SS Ha:jib of balasa*gh*un (Chamberlain Yusuf of
> > Balasaghun).
> >
> > see Enc. of Islam II "Kutadghu Bilig"