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Started by Koos Nolst Trenite
Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
RI-939i Jane Fonda Interview On Understanding War and Future Danger (Long)
Author: Koos Nolst Trenite
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
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57484 bytes
5 October 1997
issued 12 October 1997
RI-939i 'Jane Fonda Interview On Understanding War and Future Danger'
from Ambassador for Mankind
Message # RI-939i for Internet
(Shareware US $ 10)
"Very, very true!
That's a way to prevent wars!
You tell this in very simple terms,
but exactly the simplicity of it is striking."
'Jane Fonda'
'War is caused by an individual or individuals
who have the intention to destroy life and
who got themselves into a position
to use the country's defense-system for that or
to use any other system for that.'
'Ambassador for Mankind'
( Headers of the Interview with Jane Fonda
o REVIVING GOALS FOR MANKIND
o THE WAR IN VIETNAM
o FACING THE ACTUAL CONFLICT OF WAR
o FALSE SOLUTIONS TO WAR
o FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST - INSTEAD OF FOR PEOPLE
o BACK TO THE REAL PURPOSE
o ACTUAL CAUSES OF ANY WAR...
o ...ARE INDIVIDUALS
o FUTURE DANGER TO MANKIND
o PROPAGANDA - THE MAIN WEAPON TO CAUSE WAR
o HOW TO NULLIFY SUCH PROPAGANDA
o "IT WON'T GET THAT FAR"
o INTIMIDATING GOVERNMENTS
o IT IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE - IF THEY WOULD
o "CAN'T BE THAT SERIOUS"
o ENFORCING THE "RIGHT" NOT TO BE INVESTIGATED
o THE FRIGHTENING WEAPON OF SUPERIOR PROPAGANDA
o CONTROL BY PROPAGANDA
o TURNING THEIR SUPERIOR WEAPONS AGAINST THEM
o THEIR CONTEMPT OF LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS
o IGNORANCE FROM THE MEDIA
o "CAN'T LEAD TO WAR"
o HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER
o THE MOVIE "JULIA" WITH JANE FONDA
o CAUSING THE CONFLICTS - AND HIDING THE CAUSE
o THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT
o THREATS AND BLACKMAIL TO SUBDUE GOVERNMENTS
o OBJECTIVE OF WAR: TO DOMINATE PEOPLE
o USING GOOD TO ACCOMPLISH EVIL
o RESURGENCE OF GOALS FOR MANKIND
o GOALS FOR MANKIND RE-ESTABLISHED FOR JANE FONDA )
( Graphic Understanding Display of the second half of this RI-Bulletin,
at http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-I.gif
and http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-II.gif )
Telepathic(*) Interview with Jane Fonda
on 4 October 1997, 19:05 GMT,
ordered by Ambassador for Mankind.
REVIVING GOALS FOR MANKIND
[Auditor(**):] What did you want to do for Mankind?
([Note by Auditor:] I get that she is thinking strongly
of being in San Francisco.)
[Jane Fonda:]
"I wanted to bring about understanding
amongst people of different nations." F's(***)
[Auditor:] How did you stop doing it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I did not really stop it.
I still intend it intensely.
But I am doing little on it.
"My films [cinema-movies] might have contributed to it.
"At a certain time in my childhood LFBDBDBDBDBD(***)
I dreamed up the role for myself
of being a traveller holding conferences and lectures
all over the world,
telling people about their neighbors,
telling people about other cultures
and other customs and other religions."
[Note by Koos:
In other words 'as ambassador for Mankind'.]
[Koos:] So, how old were you then? Meaning, what year was it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"This was around 1950, age 12."
[Jane Fonda was born in 1937. (Note by Editor)]
[Jane Fonda:]
"How did I stop doing it?
I had a lot of other ideas of what I wanted to do for people."
[Auditor:] Whom did you try to make responsible
for executing your own goals for Mankind -
instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Adults. Politicians."
[Auditor:] What did you want to do for Mankind?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I wanted to help Mankind to understand
that wars are no solutions to conflicts."
[Auditor:] How did you stop doing it? LFBD
THE WAR IN VIETNAM
[Jane Fonda:]
"I made my point clear
regarding the war in Vietnam LFBD
[USA-involvement from 1965 to 1973]."
[Koos:] Did you? How? And, what point?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Right! I did not prevent later wars.
"A lot of people certainly understood my point
that wars are no solutions to problems,
and
they had the same idea already before,
or got it from me."
[Koos:] Am I assuming correctly
that you did NOT face the conflict,
that is, what the actual conflict was, and
that you also did NOT search
for an actual solution to the conflict,
but
that you just 'did not like war',
which most people don't like?
[Jane Fonda:]
"This sounds very simplified,
but I understand that you want to stress something:
That there was an actual conflict
behind the obvious conflict
which I didn't find out about.
"You make me curious!"
FACING THE ACTUAL CONFLICT OF WAR
[Koos:] Good!
So the "obvious" conflict wasn't the conflict at all.
So, the only point you made is
that you didn't face the conflict at all.
And so your advice
"Stop shooting [bullets and rockets at each other]!"
was totally unreal and
wasn't followed and didn't work.
So, what was the actual conflict?
[Jane Fonda:]
"You better tell me right away; LFBD
I understand that you want me to know something
that I don't know yet."
[Koos:] Right!
That's definitely true,
but I wanted first to make sure
whether you know it or not.
The conflict for the American people was:
"Do we want to invest our
time and money and possible loss of our lives
into HELPING THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE
TO KEEP THEIR FREEDOM AND INTEGRITY AND POSSESSIONS
WHICH WE HAVE PROMISED TO HELP THEM TO PROTECT,
or is that too much work and effort for us, LFBD
and do we let them
lose their freedom and integrity and
be degraded by a criminal communist dictator?"
That would be a statement of the actual conflict for the Americans,
and added to that the conflict of:
"Shall we hide that rather dishonorable
statement of the American conflict about Vietnam
from the American public,
or shall we not hide the truth of this immoral conflict
from the American public?"
So, what do you think of that?
[Jane Fonda:]
"That's a very direct and naked statement of the conflict and
is indeed dishonorable,
but it is very real to me." LFBD
FALSE SOLUTIONS TO WAR
[Koos:] So, is such a conflict solved
by letting these people
be degraded, be enslaved and
be bereft of their possessions
by a dictator and his army of degraders, enslavers and thieves
with some ideological veneer and cover-up?
[Jane Fonda:]
"It would be a solution to the conflict
for some who then don't have to face the conflict anymore,
that is:
"It wouldn't be a conflict anymore for them,
but the conflict as a nagging question
remains for the nation and
remains until the next occurrence
of threat of war in the world."
FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST - INSTEAD OF FOR PEOPLE
[Koos:] All right!
The issue is even more clear
in the recent Iraq Gulf War [US-involvement 1991]:
The American Government people
were not interested in protecting the people of Iraq
from the criminal dictator Saddam Hussein,
but they were fighting "against the people of Iraq",
as much as they were [earlier, from 1965 to 1973]
fighting "against the Vietnamese people".
They were fighting against PEOPLE
in Iraq
to secure the world wide oil prices and oil monopolies, and
in Vietnam
against Russian and Chinese influence,
military and economic.
That's not how you solve a conflict of war,
because war itself was already started
AGAINST PEOPLE
in [inside] Vietnam,
in [inside] Iraq, and earlier
in [inside] Germany.
It was [already] started [inside the country]
as an act against people,
not for people, but against people.
SO IF YOU ANSWER IT, RESPOND,
WITH ANOTHER ACT AGAINST PEOPLE,
YOU REALLY START A WAR,
WHICH ONLY ENDS AFTER ENOUGH DESTRUCTION.
So, you should have fought FOR the Vietnamese people
against this dictator.
By themselves they were not strong enough
to face and handle the dictator.
You should have fought
for the Iraqi people and
against the dictator
(by themselves the Iraqi people were and are not strong enough
to face and handle this dictator) and
you should have fought
for the German people
who were not strong enough to face
their dictator Hitler [German Fascist dictator] and
their opponent-dictator Stalin [Russian Communist dictator].
[Note by Koos:
Both were not removed by their own people.]
Only after Germany lay in ruins
did the Americans fight FOR the German people
with the economic Marshall Plan for reconstruction, and
they helped only half of the German people
against its opposing dictator Stalin, and
the other half they let rot [in former East-Germany]
under the dictatorship of Stalin.
The Americans could face helping destroyed Germans,
after the Germans' dictator [Hitler] committed suicide,
but
they [most Americans] could not face
helping strong Germans
against the still living dictator, Hitler.
And they did not at all face
helping strong Russian people
against their dictator Stalin, and
they only half-heartedly faced
helping Vietnamese people
against their dictator, and
they did not at all face
helping Iraqi people
against the dictator Saddam Hussein.
So, DID YOU FIGHT FOR HELPING THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE
TO REMAIN FREE AND TO KEEP THEIR INTEGRITY AND POSSESSIONS?
[Jane Fonda:]
"No, I didn't. I see your point."
[Koos:] Good. So you weren't so different
from the American Government people who also didn't?
[Jane Fonda:]
"That's a heavy accusation,
but in the context of your thoughts,
I admit I did not help them [the Vietnamese people],
the same as the American Government did not help them."
BACK TO THE REAL PURPOSE
[Koos:] So what was your purpose for the Vietnamese people?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I certainly did not want them
degraded and in the hands of a dictator!"
[Koos:] Good! What did you want for the people in Vietnam?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I wanted them free."
[Koos:] All right!
Is that what you demonstrated for - during the Vietnam War?
[Jane Fonda:]
"No!
"Now what is that?
It can't be just a failure to think logically, isn't it?
What else is involved here?
"I am feeling like a school-girl
being scolded by her teacher
for not having done her homework!"
ACTUAL CAUSES OF ANY WAR...
[Koos:] That's very correct! You are!
[You are like being scolded by a teacher
for not having done your homework.]
In a war, you have a dictator (or some people)
who wants (or want) to have a conflict and
who wants (or want) to destroy people:
Their own people, other people,
it doesn't matter, THEY JUST WANT TO DESTROY PEOPLE.
That's the first thing you have to face about a war:
He or they want to
dominate PEOPLE,
limit their happiness,
limit their awareness,
limit their possessions,
in short: Diminish their life.
And the second thing [you have to face about a war] is
to figure out who is or are the individuals
WHO WANT CONFLICTS and
WHO WANT TO DOMINATE AND DIMINISH THE LIFE OF PEOPLE.
How does that seem to you?
It's completely different from a game of tennis.
It's completely different from a game of football or baseball.
War is caused by an individual or individuals
who have the intention to destroy life and
who got themselves in a position
to use the country's defense-system for that or
to use any other system for that.
How does that seem to you?
...ARE INDIVIDUALS
[Jane Fonda:]
"I think that the aspect of looking for individuals
who want a war is very important here.
"Especially I am struck by the idea
that it is an individual
who gets himself in a position
to use the country's defense-system in order to destroy.
"Which would indicate
that SUCH AN INDIVIDUAL
HAD ALREADY LONG BEFORE A CONFLICT WAS THERE
PLANNED
TO CAUSE A CONFLICT AND
HAVE A REASON TO START A WAR."
[Koos:] Right! That is correct.
They amass [collect] power
in order to thereby better destroy or dominate people:
Their own people, other people, ANY people.
They use an existing defense-system or
they build up what they pretend to be only a defense-system
and
they use it to dominate their own people
into building more so-called defense systems.
They use it against their own people
already by forcing them into being soldiers
far in the excess of a needed defense, and then
they use it to start conflicts wherever they can.
You solve the conflict by finding out:
Who is against PEOPLE,
[who is] against THE SELF-DETERMINISM OF ALL PEOPLE
and
who is NOT against people, but
who is for the self-determinism of all people?
And if you detect such a dictator
who is
against people and
against the self-determinism of all people,
you better start exposing his motives and
you better start exposing his actions, his hidden actions,
before it comes to a war or
before it comes to a situation
where many people are dominated by him,
before it comes to a situation
where many people go to war, and start to fight a war
because they feel forced to, or
because his Propaganda machine
has told them enough lies to motivate them.
How does that seem to you?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Very, very true!
"That's a way to prevent wars!
"You tell this in very simple terms,
but exactly the simplicity of it is striking."
FUTURE DANGER TO MANKIND
[Koos:] Good. So, what war is Koos working day and night
since three years working to prevent?
[Jane Fonda:]
"This I do not know."
[Koos:] It is exposing somebody
who is very serious about bidding for world's domination
by the use of superior spiritual technology.
So who is that?
[Jane Fonda:]
"You are talking about L. Ron Hubbard
and about Scientology, right?"
[Koos:] That's correct!
What do you know about their
very serious plans for world's domination?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Very little.
"I know
that they have a very strict system
of control of its members, and
that they are supposed to make a lot of money and
have expanding organizations all over the world,
at least in some major countries."
PROPAGANDA - THE MAIN WEAPON TO CAUSE WAR
[Koos:] Good!
They have a huge Propaganda machine and
L. Ron Hubbard has written an enormous amount of Propaganda
since 1965
to make the members believe
that for their eternal well-being
they have to
be dominated and
let themselves be dominated or
let themselves be punished socially, mentally and financially
by the central Scientology Organization
which very tightly controls all its local organizations
by various means of domination, intimidation and
severe internal punishment and
by stamping out all individual thought and initiative.
The Propaganda includes
that
independent observation and
decency and
love
'for thy neighbor' and
for the weak and
for the sick
are very "harmful to their present and eternal
spiritual well-being".
Through the deliberate misuse and contempt
for constitutions and criminal and civil law
(not of lawyers, but of law), and
through the use of criminal lawyers,
of which there is an abundance in the world (as you know), and
through creating artificial enemies,
they rather successfully have established a monopoly,
based on a spiritual technology
which is superior to other existing technologies
of the mind and of the spirit.
AND THAT IS THE TRAP:
THE MEMBERS RECOGNIZE AND COME IN
BECAUSE OF THE SUPERIOR TECHNOLOGY,
AND THEN SWALLOW THE SUBSEQUENT ABUSE AND DOMINATION,
(WHICH) THEY SUFFER OR THEY INFLICT ON OTHERS,
BECAUSE THEY ASSUME, THAT TOO, TO BE SUPERIOR.
(see RI-586i 'Why Hubbard wants to destroy your creations' 28 May 96
at, for instance, http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-586i.htm)
But in fact, it is
superior abuse and
superior domination and
a reverse use, an evil use
of the spiritual technology and discoveries.
The justification of the members
for spreading the domination, is:
To spread the superior technology.
The Propaganda machine works very hard
to suppress or misrepresent
the flagrant abuse and
makes the goal of world domination
seem right to its members.
That's what we are up against!
And its organization
- when it has the power to influence and manipulate
the American Government -
will not hesitate to send the American Government to war,
for instance against Germany,
where the evidence of the fascistic and mafia practices
of the Scientology Organizations
could not be so heavily suppressed
by the Scientology Propaganda machines and
by the Scientology army of criminal lawyers and
by the Scientology covert intelligence,
as it has been (and is) in America.
Did you know anything about this?
And the Scientology 'going to war'
would then be completely justified
to and by its members
as bringing a country the spiritual technology and
as branding that country's government as 'being evil
for denying its population that superior spiritual technology',
which [spiritual technology] is in fact used in reverse,
that is:
To dominate - just as a country's defense weapons
can be used in reverse, and that is:
To dominate and control the population into subservience.
Did you know anything about this?
[Jane Fonda:]
"No, these are striking informations."
HOW TO NULLIFY SUCH PROPAGANDA
[Koos:] Don't you think it is vital
that you inform others about this and
that you inform yourself further about this?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Yes, I need more information about this!
"What I would like to know from you is:
"How do you figure out that a small sect
- and America has many, many sects -
can send the American Government into war against Germany,
a country that is an important economical and political ally?
"I do not see anything in our American Constitution
that would allow that, and
I don't see anyone foolish enough to do that."
"IT WON'T GET THAT FAR"
[Koos:] Good question!
But I hope the answer will not again
make you feel like a school-girl
as you mentioned before.
Imagine one country
having developed an atom bomb and
keeping a monopoly on it, and it is
using the laws and the religious-protection-laws of countries and
using the copyright-laws of countries and
using the trade-secret-laws of countries
to prevent anybody from learning
how to make atom bombs, and especially using it
to prevent anybody from learning enough about atom bombs
TO BUILD A DEFENSE against atom bombs,
- anybody, that is, who is not directly
under their control and domination.
And the other countries
say: "Well, atom bombs don't exist!"
Or: "They can't be made!"
Or: "We are not interested in atom bombs!"
Or they say - staying with our example:
"Atomic physics is used to build atom bombs
with which to dominate people, and
we are not interested in dominating people, and
it is forbidden by our constitution to dominate people,
so we are not going to study atomic-physics, and
we certainly are not going to study atomic-physics
in order to defend ourselves from non-existent atom bombs."
"And if we would want to learn atomic-physics,
we would have to go to this strange sect
which we don't want to have anything more to do with
than strictly necessary."
"And we don't investigate them and
we let them be tax-free,
because they have a lot of blackmail on us,
[on] government officials and on government institutions:
In exchange for them not publishing their blackmail on us,
we made a deal with them
to grant them religious freedom and tax-exemption and
we dropped any investigations into their
criminal and anti-constitutional activities."
INTIMIDATING GOVERNMENTS
This was in the early 1990's and before.
So the American Government is already pretty much
under the domination of the Scientology sect.
The State Department is already since some years
defending and promoting the lies and Propaganda
of this sect,
- in, of all places, the United Nations Organization
for Human Rights(!) - and
they (the American State Department
and the other American Government Departments)
are since some years remarkably silent
about the very heavy and continuous violations of human rights
by and in the Scientology Organization!
They (the American Government) are remarkably silent
about the Scientology Organization's
heavy violations and
contempt
of the constitution,
of all criminal and civil laws,
of court.
IT IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE - IF THEY WOULD
All of this is even openly stated
in the policy of the Scientology Organization.
This includes their [the Scientology Organization's]
openly stated contempt of the freedom of press.
Any member is strictly forbidden to talk to the press.
Any journalistic investigation
is blocked with heavy harassment.
The Constitution is used
to HIDE the crimes of the Organization and
any crimes of its staff
are heavily covered up by the sect's organization.
The members on staff are very strictly forbidden,
by openly stated policy,
to exercise their Constitutional rights
against any crime committed against them
by the sect's organization,
by openly known policy
they are strictly forbidden from going to any court of law
to seek or get their right established
against the organization,
and if they do or try to,
the full range of spiritual technology is used
on them, on the lawyers, on the judges,
on the witnesses and on the jury
in order to make the action fail,
no matter how, and especially when, justified.
In the courts of law, witnesses for their defense
are especially trained
to make false and misleading statements when questioned and
are heavily briefed
to only give Propaganda.
Does this answer your question to some extent?
"CAN'T BE THAT SERIOUS"
[Jane Fonda:]
"This is a very revealing account
about how they handle court cases.
"But from there it's a long way
to make the American Government willing to start a war,
I mean: A war with weapons,
or what kind of war are you talking about?"
[Koos:] I am saying that
if they have the chance
to actually use conventional weapons or to threaten with it,
they would not hesitate.
It is describing the
determination and
utter lack of conscience of
L. Ron Hubbard and his organization,
driven by immense Propaganda.
Right now the war is fought by different means:
By pressure,
by false accusations,
by fomenting [inciting] conflict,
by misrepresentation of motives.
And the State Department [of the USA]
is already putting pressure on the German Government
to stop investigations of the Scientology Organizations!
Any other organization
lets itself be investigated by the government.
And there are many laws which give the government THE DUTY
to investigate organizations
in order to protect the population, their citizens
against abuse by organizations
and even to prevent monopolies
[and to detect and stop mafia-practices].
The Scientology Organization
fights for the right NOT to be investigated!
That's all they want in Germany and anywhere else,
and they have already succeeded in America to obtain that right.
ENFORCING THE "RIGHT" NOT TO BE INVESTIGATED
They are fighting for the right in Germany
that the German Government
does NOT protect its citizens
against the well-known and flagrant abuse
and openly stated contempt (even written in its policies) of
the human rights,
the constitutional rights and
the legal rights and
the freedom of press,
for its members and potential members.
That is what they are attacking the German Government for, and
they are attacking Germany
for them having the "right" to infiltrate and to undermine
its government and its constitutional bodies
- which any Scientology member is required
by Scientology policy to undermine and misuse!
But the 'Goebbelses' [Propaganda-people]
of the Scientology Organizations:
Its President Heber Jentzsch and
his criminal friends,
are putting out the Propaganda
that they are
BEING discriminated and
BEING harassed by the German Government
(in actual fact in order to assert the "right"
not to be investigated and actually
to deny the German Government
the right to protect its citizens
from abuse by the Scientology Organization).
The initiative to investigate
the mafia-practices of the Scientology Organizations
did not come from the German Government,
but from members of Scientology
who were heavily abused, financially ruined,
betrayed and harassed - but
who were not intimidated enough
to keep their mouth shut and
to close their eyes.
And the abused members have it easier here
because fascism
- and the Scientology Organization IS a fascism,
as I have explained extensively above -
fascism is forbidden by law in Germany, and
the legal system is somewhat less supportive
of criminal lawyers than it is in America.
Lawyers are not rewarded in the same way as in America.
They have fixed rates and
they are forbidden to work on a bounty system,
meaning only being paid when they win and
being paid a part of what money they win.
But the point is
that you do as if atom bombs don't exist.
THE FRIGHTENING WEAPON OF SUPERIOR PROPAGANDA
Now I have not only studied physics,
(see RI-480i 'Koos Nolst Trenite - Life-story' of 14 Feb 1996
at, for instance http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-480i.htm)
but I also have studied
the spiritual technology of Scientology,
and I do know that it does exist.
It is basically and originally
a technology for finding out the truth
about anything and about anybody.
[Now that can be used for good and for evil
- it can be used to free people, and
it can be used to intimidate people.
And that's why they SAY they have to protect its use.
(That's their PROPAGANDA.)
You see, they insist on the "right"
that they find out everything about me
that they then can use to manipulate me
spiritually and socially -
but at the same time they insist
that I am not allowed to or
(that I am) prevented from
finding out anything about them,
especially about their actual intentions and motives.
(Note by Koos).]
CONTROL BY PROPAGANDA
That's why they so heavily insist
on a monopoly of only being allowed to use it
within and under the direct control
of the Scientology Organization,
so that you are only finding out
'what you are allowed to find out'.
[They even tell their members
that it is harmful to a person
to find out things they don't want found out! (Note by Koos)]
And that, when you do find something out other than that,
you are immediately "handled"
to see that "it was actually different",
or "how survival it is
for yourself and
for continuing your spiritual progress and
for safeguarding the spiritual future of Mankind"
that you
do not inform anybody else or the press or the government and
to strictly keep the information within the Organization,
to not inform any other members and
to not inform any other staff,
except - if you feel you must -
by writing a report to one staffmember,
called an Ethics Officer,
who exists in any organization,
who simply files the report and
enforces that
"it is now his responsibility to deal with the matter,
and not your responsibility anymore", and
who sits back with a yawn and does nothing
"because he has to protect his seniors' and
L. Ron Hubbard's and the Organization's reputation".
TURNING THEIR SUPERIOR WEAPONS AGAINST THEM
So, I have extensively studied
this 'atomic physics' of Scientology,
the spiritual technology,
and
I use this truthfinding technology
- WITHOUT control by the organization -
in order to find out the truth about them and
to publish the result [in the 1000 RI-Bulletins so far], and
to inform you and others
about the results of my investigations,
in the way that I do now.
THEIR CONTEMPT OF LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS
So, they are fighting for the right NOT to be investigated.
THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT
TO BE IN CONTEMPT OF
ALL CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS AND HUMAN RIGHTS,
while using those very constitutions and laws and human rights
to enforce their contempt
- with the purpose of dominating Mankind
through their [evil use of]
superior technology and [their evil use of]
knowledge of the human mind, their
technology [laid down in their public and confidential
Policy Letters and Directives]
of how to use it in reverse.
Do you still maintain that "the atom bomb does not exist"?
[Jane Fonda:]
"You just informed me about it.
"Now I know something about it."
IGNORANCE FROM THE MEDIA
[Koos:] Does your husband,
Ted Turner [of the Time Warner Company and CNN Television]
know anything about this?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Not more than I did."
[Koos:] So did I answer your question?
[Jane Fonda:]
"No."
"CAN'T LEAD TO WAR"
[Koos:] So, repeat your question!
[Jane Fonda:]
"How could a small sect like Scientology
manage to incite the American Government and the militaries
to start a war, I mean a military war, against Germany?
"Whereby I am sure that America would get much protest
from other European countries.
"And what would be the issue?
"The Americans certainly wouldn't go to war
to defend the Church of Scientology in Germany
of maybe [to defend] a few thousand members.
"Regarding everything else what you said about their practices,
I assume you spoke out of knowledge and investigation.
"I haven't investigated anything from my side,
but I follow what you said.
"I understand also
that, as you described the character of the Organization,
the member or their leaders
would use war as a means to dominate
- they would, but COULD they?"
HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER
[Koos:] Right!
We are getting back
on the subject and
onto the questions from the beginning of our interview,
which apparently were well chosen, and
we talked about the actual conflict leading to war,
and
[we talked about] finding the party
who wants to dominate people and
[we talked about] investigating and exposing
the party's intentions and hidden practices.
You remember the film "Julia" that you made,
where you were the American friend of Julia
- Julia who fought in the Resistance against Hitler?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Yes."
[Koos:] All right!
Did you study how Hitler
came to power with a handful of criminals and
at the end dominated a hundred million people
into doing nothing but
making weapons and
spouting Propaganda to defend the "great nation" -
with a government that "governed" by
providing [internal and external] enemies for them to fight,
enemies, that were so-called "threatening the German people".
Did you study
how, with a handful of criminals, he
came to power and
in the end had a hundred million people
cheering him and
fighting for him to the death
with great pride of fighting
"to defend the great nation and the great Hitler"?
(see RI-71Ri 'How Hitler trapped the German People' of 22 Jan 1995
at, for instance, http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-071ri.htm)
Did you study how he came to power,
how that happened?
I imagine you might, in preparation for that movie,
have done that. But apparently you didn't.
Right?
THE MOVIE "JULIA" WITH JANE FONDA
[Jane Fonda:]
"I did study it, and not only
in preparation for that movie."
[Koos:] Good!
But apparently you didn't UNDERSTAND anything of it.
Maybe you studied it in school because you had to.
I am getting this from how you acted in that movie called "Julia":
Understanding your own character, yes,
but not in anyway the character of 'Julia'
who was played by Vanessa Redgrave.
Now maybe the movie-director wanted you to play
'a stupid idiot girl from America',
naive, dependent on her husband for any self-confidence
- but nevertheless!
While (in the movie) away from him and being with your friend Julia
you could (in the movie, as the character that you played)
have understood her and didn't.
It was all one big mystery, like:
"Why this war and what have I to do with it?"
You understand what I mean?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I understand what you mean.
"a) You would have directed the film "Julia" in a different way,
you would have wanted the character I played
to be played differently.
I didn't play it out of a lack of understanding,
but it was intended [the way I played it].
"b) You want me to understand
the character of the members or leaders
of Scientology Organizations, and that I understand
that they are willing to produce a war
when hindered to operate
as you described with your knowledge about them.
c) You inform me about and you want me to take responsibility for
what is going on in Scientology Organizations, and
what they are doing to the world.
You want me to investigate and to further inform myself.
"So, from your knowledge about them,
how would they go about
getting the American government
to start a war against Germany?"
CAUSING THE CONFLICTS - AND HIDING THE CAUSE
[Koos:] This war is already going on publicly since at least a year,
with huge advertisements in the newspapers,
containing very false Propaganda against Germany.
They are pressurizing the State Department [into attacking Germany
- Germany that wants to and does protect its citizens
from the mafia-practices
that members and ex-members of Scientology
report to the German Government,
and not only there,
but also in Greece, in Spain, in Italy, in France].
They are now pressurizing the
Helsinki Conference of States [on Human Rights(!)].
They have practically silenced the American Television stations,
ABC, NBC, Ted Turner's CNN,
to the point that they don't even dare to
investigate and report to the American population.
Anything that they DO dare report on is:
Floods, hurricanes, shootings, bombings,
airplane crashes, and burning oil fields at times.
(I am being sarcastic to get my point across.)
And any German Television journalist just laughs about
the total irresponsibility and lack of useful information
of the American television stations,
who - if they report about a war -
are not interested
why there is a war and
how to stop it, and
they don't even bother to investigate those things!
THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT
I just saw a brilliant European feature (or was it Canadian?)
on how a handful of criminals [the Mexican Government]
very recently bankrupted the country of Mexico,
along the lines and spirit
of similar policies and Propaganda of
[and probably provided to them by]
the Scientology Organization.
The president of Mexico and a handful of businessmen
had a huge program of "bringing business and wealth
to Mexico and to its population",
but the wealth went
to them and to the 'City Bank' and
to some banks in Switzerland, and
they were big friends with the American government.
And now the Swiss Federal Police
is investigating the matter
in order to clear the already bad reputation of the Swiss and
to get some of the money back to the Mexican people.
All [were] gangsters, you know,
and the head gangster, the last president of Mexico,
was even elected by the people.
THREATS AND BLACKMAIL TO SUBDUE GOVERNMENTS
So let's not be so naive about all this:
You don't necessarily have to actually use weapons
in order to dominate people.
It is often enough only necessary
to threaten with them, and
to threaten with trade sanctions, etc.
And in the case of the Scientology Organization,
they have and had a huge amount of blackmail
on Government officials, and
they don't mind using it,
and [they obviously didn't mind using it]
in order to indeed, a few years ago, get their tax-exempt-statement
in a secret contract with the government, and
in order to stop all investigations
into the Scientology Organizations in America
- they certainly used the blackmail.
You see, with their spiritual technology
they are not only getting and writing down
very extensive and gruelling confessions
of their members' crimes and illegal acts in life,
but also the crimes and illegal acts
that their members know about others.
And again,
exactly following the published Policy of their Organization
"to defend" the organization's crimes and
to increase its power,
anything goes.
You should investigate the character and nature
of its leader David Miscavige
whom I incapacitated a few years ago and
whose double, look-alike, only appears now and then in public.
Compared to him, Hitler was a likeable guy.
OBJECTIVE OF WAR: TO DOMINATE PEOPLE
So, use of weapons or not,
the intention is there, very, very strongly,
to dominate all of Mankind,
to infiltrate and dominate all governments,
preferably and easily realized without any use of weapons,
and all that driven by the Propaganda of
"it is necessary for one's own eternal well-being and
it is necessary for the eternal well-being of others" and
"we have the superior spiritual technology".
(see the very many RI-Bulletins on the subject
at, for instance, http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/)
The last argument [superior spiritual technology] is correct,
but they don't tell you, nor anybody else,
that it is used
to dominate and enslave people and
not as what they advertise it for,
NOT to free people.
USING GOOD TO ACCOMPLISH EVIL
Which they could use it for and
which it was originally intended for,
were it not for the fact that
his evil sides
got the better of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and
fully got him in his grip, especially since 1965,
when he very erroneously decided
that "he was more perfect
than anybody else in the universe".
(see also RI-288i 'The Main Evil Purpose' of 15 Oct 1995
at, for instance, http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-288i.htm)
So the point IS domination of Mankind
through superior technology, and
through knowledge about the mind and the spirit
and
it's entirely BESIDES the point
whether this will happen with or without the use
of conventional military weapons,
but, if you insist,
I can assure you,
that in its final stage of any such a situation,
all available weapons will be used
and that happens to include
conventional military weapons as well.
Did I answer your question now?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Calling me naive!
"Now you answered my question. Thank you."
RESURGENCE OF GOALS FOR MANKIND
[Koos:] So, we started out on your purposes for Mankind.
So the question is:
'What do you want to do for Mankind?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I still want that people of all nations
understand each other." LFBD
[Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I think it's a full-time occupation, LFBDBDBD
and I am busy with many things. LFBD
"I consider it now more
a task for several generations to come."
[Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
for executing your own goals for Mankind,
instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
[Jane Fonda:]
"My husband,
politicians,
the young people. LF
"When I was a kid I wanted to make adults responsible for it
and now I want to make the kids responsible for it! LFBD
"Looks like I consider it a task that I can't do,
or only sporadically on a small scale."
[Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Bring about more understanding,
help to prevent wars."
[Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I think it's a task for all of us.
"(I think I can contribute to others
who do it on a larger scale than I do it.)"
[Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
for executing your own goals for Mankind,
instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
[Jane Fonda:]
"The heads of nations,
politicians."
[Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I want to give people a liking for themselves."
[Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I have tried to DO it with Aerobic:
"The main intention with it was not
to make someone like his body more,
but
that the person experiences joy
about being there and moving, and
that he experiences himself more intensely.
"But it needs many things
until someone gets a real constant liking of himself.
"I do not have the patience
to sit with people and listen to their problems."
[Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
for executing your own goals for Mankind,
instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
[Jane Fonda:]
"Psychologists,
Scientologists,
priests,
people themselves. LFBD
"I could also do something for myself in that respect.
And that's also good for others,
because if I like myself, I like other people, too." LFBDBDBD
[Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
[Jane Fonda:]
"To bring about more understanding for each other."
GOALS FOR MANKIND RE-ESTABLISHED FOR JANE FONDA
[Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
[Jane Fonda:]
"It is a big task, and
sometimes I think it is what I do all the time, and
sometimes I think I really haven't started yet.
But the answer lies somewhere in the middle. LFBD
"I WANT to do something for Mankind!
I WANT to help people
to understand each other and themselves better,
I WANT that they understand life better. F
"I have done quite something in that respect,
but there is so much more to do."
LFBD-F/Nind [= truth establish to the interviewee's satisfaction]
[Koos:] How did you like the Interview with Koos?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I liked the Interview with Koos very much."
[Koos:] Would you like to say or ask anything after the interview?
[Jane Fonda:]
"I thank Koos for his information and clarification."
LFBD-F/Nind [interviewee satisfied]
'Jane Fonda'
Total session time: 8 hrs 46 min
Highly specialized Telepathic Auditing
at 700 US $ per hour, makes 6,137 US $ total cost.
See the Graphic Understanding Display (made by Jutta Nolst Trenite)
of the FUTURE WAR
to visualize and fully grasp
the description of it, above, by Ambassador for Mankind,
at http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-I.gif
and http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-II.gif
* (see RI-771i 'Use of Telepathy' of 4 Jan 1996
http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-771i.htm
RI-896i 'Telepathy - Questions about getting in communication' Jun 97
http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-896i.htm
RI-857i 'Telepathy - Telepathic Auditor Training Course' 29 May 97
http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-857i.htm
** ('Auditor': Someone who carefully listens.)
*** (The abbreviations sF(small Fall), F(Fall), LF(Long Fall), LFBD(Long
Fall Blow Down) and F/N(Floating Needle) describe reactions on the
E-meter, indicating mental charge (sF, F, LF, LFBD), and release of
charge completed (F/N).
"LFBD-F/N" = truth found out. "ind" = indicated to the person.)
(see RI-610i 'Understanding the E-meter, correctly' of 26 June 1996
RI-648i 'Simplicity of E-meter use, by UNDERSTANDING it' 1 Aug 96
RI-687i 'Notes on E-meter use and Solo-Auditing' of 4 Sept 1996
http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-687i.htm)
Koos Nolst Trenite - Ambassador for Mankind
Copyright 1997 by Koos Nolst Trenite
Personal Web-page:
http://ArtOrg.com
Personal Web-Library:
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/
Library Search Engine:
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/search.html
References (available at the Library "http://Art-Org.com"):
- About Jane Fonda
RI-587Ri 'Actress Jane Fonda: "This Earth is ours"' of 31 May 96
- About Art and Artists
RI-019Ri 'Artists and Ethics' of 10 Sept 1992
RI-704Ri 'Real Art is not hard to understand' of 30 Sept 96
RI-262i 'Creating despite Suppressive Persons' of 20 Aug 1995
- About Hubbard-Scientology-fascism destroying Artists
RI-205i 'FLAG "Tech" destroys Artists' of 8 Jun 1995
RI-488i 'Very able people at serious risk in Scientology' 23 Feb 1996
RI-413RBi 'Michael Jackson broke with L. Ron Hubbard Scientology' 18 Dec 95
- About Society, Power, War
RI-543i 'Dictators' of 22 July 1994
RI-939i 'Jane Fonda Interview On Understanding War' of 5 Oct 1997
RI-929i 'Simple Detection: "Sane or Insane?"' of 11 Sept 1997
RI-602i 'Definition of Power' of 20 June 1996
RI-629i 'Definition of "Care"' of 12 July 1996
RI-705i 'Society Resurgence, Use of Rules' of 9 Oct 1996
RI-750i 'Crimes are not motivated by money' of 1 Dec 1996
RI-71Ri 'How Hitler trapped the German People' of 22 Jan 1995
RI-267i 'Omitted Data on Waging and Ending Wars' of 13 Sep 1995
RI-603i 'Capitalist - Industrialist - Employee' of 21 Oct 1995
- About the evil of L. Ron Hubbard and of his Scientology-Organization
RI-650Ri 'All Scientologists destroy your Civil Rights everywhere' 5 Aug 96
RI-806i 'Scientology-"Religion" - evil in business and science' 16 Mar 97
RI-783i 'A lesson in Hubbard-Scientology Public Relations' of 19 Jan 1997
RI-732i 'The Evil in L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology Philosophy' of 10 Nov 96
RI-546i 'Support for the being LRH now is Treason to Mankind' 4 May 96
RI-538i 'Official Expulsion of the being LRH from Scn' 17 Apr 96
RI-907i 'A glimpse of spiritual warfare' of 16 July 1997
RI-868i 'Ron Hubbard's Black Magic against Koos Nolst Trenite' 19 May 97
- About helping people
RI-631i 'Definition of "Woman"' of 12 July 1996
RI-629i 'Definition of "Care"' of 12 July 1996
RI-781BPI 'Raising Children - or Keeping Them Small?' of 16 Jan 1997
RI-537i 'The Right to Demand Awareness' of 15 Apr 1996
RI-801i '"You can never leave" - The spiritual universe' of 14 Mar 1997
RI-785i 'On Not Remedying Disagreements - "Not Talking"' of 24 Jan 1997
RI-602i 'Definition of Power' of 20 June 1996
RI-705i 'Society Resurgence, Use of Rules' of 9 Oct 1996
RI-925i 'Restoring life-force - Affinity for who and what IS THERE' Aug 97
RI-918i 'Spiritual Power defined correctly' of 4 Aug 1997
- About facing evil and insanity
RI-908i 'The Ostrich-factor - on facing evil or criminality' 16 July 97
RI-926i 'I do not respect the right of others to be insane' of 19 Aug 1997
RI-058Ri 'Fair Game Series - Treatment of Enemies' of 1 Jan 95
RI-487i 'Dialogue: On Enemies and Hostility' of 20 Feb 1996
RI-535i '"An Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" = INSANE' 10 Apr 96
- About RI-Bulletins
RI-380Ri 'Obtaining Truth from the RI-Bulletins' of 1 Nov 1995
RI-50RQi 'RI-xxxi series Archive - Content and Use' 28 Dec 94
Revised and Replaced on 6 March 1996
These references and other RI-Bulletins can be obtained, for instance,
at the Library of Koos' writings on
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/usp.htm
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ao-notes.htm
http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/telepathy.htm
or at the Archives at
ftp://thetics.europa.com/outgoing/adams/RI
ftp://thetics.europa.com/outgoing/adams/RI/USP
F**K Hanoi Jane
Author: Mike Kopack
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
1612 lines
59816 bytes
59816 bytes
Just my opinion...
Koos Nolst Trenite wrote:
> 5 October 1997
> issued 12 October 1997
>
> RI-939i 'Jane Fonda Interview On Understanding War and Future Danger'
>
> from Ambassador for Mankind
>
> Message # RI-939i for Internet
>
> (Shareware US $ 10)
>
> "Very, very true!
> That's a way to prevent wars!
> You tell this in very simple terms,
> but exactly the simplicity of it is striking."
>
> 'Jane Fonda'
>
> 'War is caused by an individual or individuals
> who have the intention to destroy life and
> who got themselves into a position
> to use the country's defense-system for that or
> to use any other system for that.'
>
> 'Ambassador for Mankind'
>
> ( Headers of the Interview with Jane Fonda
>
> o REVIVING GOALS FOR MANKIND
>
> o THE WAR IN VIETNAM
> o FACING THE ACTUAL CONFLICT OF WAR
> o FALSE SOLUTIONS TO WAR
> o FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST - INSTEAD OF FOR PEOPLE
> o BACK TO THE REAL PURPOSE
> o ACTUAL CAUSES OF ANY WAR...
> o ...ARE INDIVIDUALS
>
> o FUTURE DANGER TO MANKIND
> o PROPAGANDA - THE MAIN WEAPON TO CAUSE WAR
> o HOW TO NULLIFY SUCH PROPAGANDA
> o "IT WON'T GET THAT FAR"
> o INTIMIDATING GOVERNMENTS
> o IT IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE - IF THEY WOULD
> o "CAN'T BE THAT SERIOUS"
>
> o ENFORCING THE "RIGHT" NOT TO BE INVESTIGATED
> o THE FRIGHTENING WEAPON OF SUPERIOR PROPAGANDA
> o CONTROL BY PROPAGANDA
> o TURNING THEIR SUPERIOR WEAPONS AGAINST THEM
> o THEIR CONTEMPT OF LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS
> o IGNORANCE FROM THE MEDIA
> o "CAN'T LEAD TO WAR"
>
> o HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER
> o THE MOVIE "JULIA" WITH JANE FONDA
> o CAUSING THE CONFLICTS - AND HIDING THE CAUSE
> o THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT
> o THREATS AND BLACKMAIL TO SUBDUE GOVERNMENTS
> o OBJECTIVE OF WAR: TO DOMINATE PEOPLE
> o USING GOOD TO ACCOMPLISH EVIL
>
> o RESURGENCE OF GOALS FOR MANKIND
> o GOALS FOR MANKIND RE-ESTABLISHED FOR JANE FONDA )
>
> ( Graphic Understanding Display of the second half of this
> RI-Bulletin,
> at http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-I.gif
> and http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-II.gif )
>
> Telepathic(*) Interview with Jane Fonda
> on 4 October 1997, 19:05 GMT,
> ordered by Ambassador for Mankind.
>
> REVIVING GOALS FOR MANKIND
>
> [Auditor(**):] What did you want to do for Mankind?
>
> ([Note by Auditor:] I get that she is thinking strongly
> of being in San Francisco.)
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I wanted to bring about understanding
> amongst people of different nations." F's(***)
>
> [Auditor:] How did you stop doing it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I did not really stop it.
> I still intend it intensely.
> But I am doing little on it.
>
> "My films [cinema-movies] might have contributed to it.
>
> "At a certain time in my childhood LFBDBDBDBDBD(***)
> I dreamed up the role for myself
> of being a traveller holding conferences and lectures
> all over the world,
> telling people about their neighbors,
> telling people about other cultures
> and other customs and other religions."
>
> [Note by Koos:
> In other words 'as ambassador for Mankind'.]
>
> [Koos:] So, how old were you then? Meaning, what year was it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "This was around 1950, age 12."
>
> [Jane Fonda was born in 1937. (Note by Editor)]
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "How did I stop doing it?
> I had a lot of other ideas of what I wanted to do for people."
>
> [Auditor:] Whom did you try to make responsible
> for executing your own goals for Mankind -
> instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Adults. Politicians."
>
> [Auditor:] What did you want to do for Mankind?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I wanted to help Mankind to understand
> that wars are no solutions to conflicts."
>
> [Auditor:] How did you stop doing it? LFBD
>
> THE WAR IN VIETNAM
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I made my point clear
> regarding the war in Vietnam LFBD
> [USA-involvement from 1965 to 1973]."
>
> [Koos:] Did you? How? And, what point?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Right! I did not prevent later wars.
>
> "A lot of people certainly understood my point
> that wars are no solutions to problems,
> and
> they had the same idea already before,
> or got it from me."
>
> [Koos:] Am I assuming correctly
> that you did NOT face the conflict,
> that is, what the actual conflict was, and
> that you also did NOT search
> for an actual solution to the conflict,
> but
> that you just 'did not like war',
> which most people don't like?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "This sounds very simplified,
> but I understand that you want to stress something:
> That there was an actual conflict
> behind the obvious conflict
> which I didn't find out about.
>
> "You make me curious!"
>
> FACING THE ACTUAL CONFLICT OF WAR
>
> [Koos:] Good!
>
> So the "obvious" conflict wasn't the conflict at all.
>
> So, the only point you made is
> that you didn't face the conflict at all.
>
> And so your advice
> "Stop shooting [bullets and rockets at each other]!"
> was totally unreal and
> wasn't followed and didn't work.
>
> So, what was the actual conflict?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "You better tell me right away; LFBD
> I understand that you want me to know something
> that I don't know yet."
>
> [Koos:] Right!
>
> That's definitely true,
> but I wanted first to make sure
> whether you know it or not.
>
> The conflict for the American people was:
> "Do we want to invest our
> time and money and possible loss of our lives
> into HELPING THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE
> TO KEEP THEIR FREEDOM AND INTEGRITY AND POSSESSIONS
> WHICH WE HAVE PROMISED TO HELP THEM TO PROTECT,
> or is that too much work and effort for us, LFBD
> and do we let them
> lose their freedom and integrity and
> be degraded by a criminal communist dictator?"
>
> That would be a statement of the actual conflict for the
> Americans,
> and added to that the conflict of:
> "Shall we hide that rather dishonorable
> statement of the American conflict about Vietnam
> from the American public,
> or shall we not hide the truth of this immoral conflict
> from the American public?"
>
> So, what do you think of that?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "That's a very direct and naked statement of the conflict and
> is indeed dishonorable,
> but it is very real to me." LFBD
>
> FALSE SOLUTIONS TO WAR
>
> [Koos:] So, is such a conflict solved
> by letting these people
> be degraded, be enslaved and
> be bereft of their possessions
> by a dictator and his army of degraders, enslavers and
> thieves
> with some ideological veneer and cover-up?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "It would be a solution to the conflict
> for some who then don't have to face the conflict anymore,
> that is:
>
> "It wouldn't be a conflict anymore for them,
> but the conflict as a nagging question
> remains for the nation and
> remains until the next occurrence
> of threat of war in the world."
>
> FIGHTING A WAR AGAINST - INSTEAD OF FOR PEOPLE
>
> [Koos:] All right!
>
> The issue is even more clear
> in the recent Iraq Gulf War [US-involvement 1991]:
>
> The American Government people
> were not interested in protecting the people of Iraq
> from the criminal dictator Saddam Hussein,
> but they were fighting "against the people of Iraq",
> as much as they were [earlier, from 1965 to 1973]
> fighting "against the Vietnamese people".
>
> They were fighting against PEOPLE
> in Iraq
> to secure the world wide oil prices and oil monopolies,
> and
> in Vietnam
> against Russian and Chinese influence,
> military and economic.
>
> That's not how you solve a conflict of war,
> because war itself was already started
> AGAINST PEOPLE
> in [inside] Vietnam,
> in [inside] Iraq, and earlier
> in [inside] Germany.
>
> It was [already] started [inside the country]
> as an act against people,
> not for people, but against people.
>
> SO IF YOU ANSWER IT, RESPOND,
> WITH ANOTHER ACT AGAINST PEOPLE,
> YOU REALLY START A WAR,
> WHICH ONLY ENDS AFTER ENOUGH DESTRUCTION.
>
> So, you should have fought FOR the Vietnamese people
> against this dictator.
>
> By themselves they were not strong enough
> to face and handle the dictator.
>
> You should have fought
> for the Iraqi people and
> against the dictator
> (by themselves the Iraqi people were and are not strong
> enough
> to face and handle this dictator) and
> you should have fought
> for the German people
> who were not strong enough to face
> their dictator Hitler [German Fascist dictator] and
> their opponent-dictator Stalin [Russian Communist
> dictator].
>
> [Note by Koos:
> Both were not removed by their own people.]
>
> Only after Germany lay in ruins
> did the Americans fight FOR the German people
> with the economic Marshall Plan for reconstruction, and
> they helped only half of the German people
> against its opposing dictator Stalin, and
> the other half they let rot [in former East-Germany]
> under the dictatorship of Stalin.
>
> The Americans could face helping destroyed Germans,
> after the Germans' dictator [Hitler] committed suicide,
> but
> they [most Americans] could not face
> helping strong Germans
> against the still living dictator, Hitler.
>
> And they did not at all face
> helping strong Russian people
> against their dictator Stalin, and
> they only half-heartedly faced
> helping Vietnamese people
> against their dictator, and
> they did not at all face
> helping Iraqi people
> against the dictator Saddam Hussein.
>
> So, DID YOU FIGHT FOR HELPING THE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE
> TO REMAIN FREE AND TO KEEP THEIR INTEGRITY AND POSSESSIONS?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "No, I didn't. I see your point."
>
> [Koos:] Good. So you weren't so different
> from the American Government people who also didn't?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "That's a heavy accusation,
> but in the context of your thoughts,
> I admit I did not help them [the Vietnamese people],
> the same as the American Government did not help them."
>
> BACK TO THE REAL PURPOSE
>
> [Koos:] So what was your purpose for the Vietnamese people?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I certainly did not want them
> degraded and in the hands of a dictator!"
>
> [Koos:] Good! What did you want for the people in Vietnam?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I wanted them free."
>
> [Koos:] All right!
> Is that what you demonstrated for - during the Vietnam War?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "No!
>
> "Now what is that?
> It can't be just a failure to think logically, isn't it?
> What else is involved here?
>
> "I am feeling like a school-girl
> being scolded by her teacher
> for not having done her homework!"
>
> ACTUAL CAUSES OF ANY WAR...
>
> [Koos:] That's very correct! You are!
> [You are like being scolded by a teacher
> for not having done your homework.]
>
> In a war, you have a dictator (or some people)
> who wants (or want) to have a conflict and
> who wants (or want) to destroy people:
> Their own people, other people,
> it doesn't matter, THEY JUST WANT TO DESTROY PEOPLE.
>
> That's the first thing you have to face about a war:
> He or they want to
> dominate PEOPLE,
> limit their happiness,
> limit their awareness,
> limit their possessions,
> in short: Diminish their life.
>
> And the second thing [you have to face about a war] is
> to figure out who is or are the individuals
> WHO WANT CONFLICTS and
> WHO WANT TO DOMINATE AND DIMINISH THE LIFE OF PEOPLE.
>
> How does that seem to you?
>
> It's completely different from a game of tennis.
> It's completely different from a game of football or
> baseball.
>
> War is caused by an individual or individuals
> who have the intention to destroy life and
> who got themselves in a position
> to use the country's defense-system for that or
> to use any other system for that.
>
> How does that seem to you?
>
> ...ARE INDIVIDUALS
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I think that the aspect of looking for individuals
> who want a war is very important here.
>
> "Especially I am struck by the idea
> that it is an individual
> who gets himself in a position
> to use the country's defense-system in order to destroy.
>
> "Which would indicate
> that SUCH AN INDIVIDUAL
> HAD ALREADY LONG BEFORE A CONFLICT WAS THERE
> PLANNED
> TO CAUSE A CONFLICT AND
> HAVE A REASON TO START A WAR."
>
> [Koos:] Right! That is correct.
>
> They amass [collect] power
> in order to thereby better destroy or dominate people:
> Their own people, other people, ANY people.
>
> They use an existing defense-system or
> they build up what they pretend to be only a defense-system
> and
> they use it to dominate their own people
> into building more so-called defense systems.
> They use it against their own people
> already by forcing them into being soldiers
> far in the excess of a needed defense, and then
> they use it to start conflicts wherever they can.
>
> You solve the conflict by finding out:
> Who is against PEOPLE,
> [who is] against THE SELF-DETERMINISM OF ALL PEOPLE
> and
> who is NOT against people, but
> who is for the self-determinism of all people?
>
> And if you detect such a dictator
> who is
> against people and
> against the self-determinism of all people,
> you better start exposing his motives and
> you better start exposing his actions, his hidden actions,
>
> before it comes to a war or
> before it comes to a situation
> where many people are dominated by him,
> before it comes to a situation
> where many people go to war, and start to fight a war
> because they feel forced to, or
> because his Propaganda machine
> has told them enough lies to motivate them.
>
> How does that seem to you?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Very, very true!
>
> "That's a way to prevent wars!
>
> "You tell this in very simple terms,
> but exactly the simplicity of it is striking."
>
> FUTURE DANGER TO MANKIND
>
> [Koos:] Good. So, what war is Koos working day and night
> since three years working to prevent?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "This I do not know."
>
> [Koos:] It is exposing somebody
> who is very serious about bidding for world's domination
> by the use of superior spiritual technology.
>
> So who is that?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "You are talking about L. Ron Hubbard
> and about Scientology, right?"
>
> [Koos:] That's correct!
> What do you know about their
> very serious plans for world's domination?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Very little.
>
> "I know
> that they have a very strict system
> of control of its members, and
> that they are supposed to make a lot of money and
> have expanding organizations all over the world,
> at least in some major countries."
>
> PROPAGANDA - THE MAIN WEAPON TO CAUSE WAR
>
> [Koos:] Good!
>
> They have a huge Propaganda machine and
> L. Ron Hubbard has written an enormous amount of Propaganda
> since 1965
> to make the members believe
> that for their eternal well-being
> they have to
> be dominated and
> let themselves be dominated or
> let themselves be punished socially, mentally and
> financially
> by the central Scientology Organization
> which very tightly controls all its local
> organizations
> by various means of domination, intimidation and
> severe internal punishment and
> by stamping out all individual thought and
> initiative.
>
> The Propaganda includes
> that
> independent observation and
> decency and
> love
> 'for thy neighbor' and
> for the weak and
> for the sick
> are very "harmful to their present and eternal
> spiritual well-being".
>
> Through the deliberate misuse and contempt
> for constitutions and criminal and civil law
> (not of lawyers, but of law), and
> through the use of criminal lawyers,
> of which there is an abundance in the world (as you know),
> and
> through creating artificial enemies,
> they rather successfully have established a monopoly,
> based on a spiritual technology
> which is superior to other existing technologies
> of the mind and of the spirit.
>
> AND THAT IS THE TRAP:
>
> THE MEMBERS RECOGNIZE AND COME IN
> BECAUSE OF THE SUPERIOR TECHNOLOGY,
> AND THEN SWALLOW THE SUBSEQUENT ABUSE AND DOMINATION,
> (WHICH) THEY SUFFER OR THEY INFLICT ON OTHERS,
> BECAUSE THEY ASSUME, THAT TOO, TO BE SUPERIOR.
>
> (see RI-586i 'Why Hubbard wants to destroy your creations' 28
> May 96
> at, for instance,
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-586i.htm)
>
> But in fact, it is
> superior abuse and
> superior domination and
> a reverse use, an evil use
> of the spiritual technology and discoveries.
>
> The justification of the members
> for spreading the domination, is:
> To spread the superior technology.
>
> The Propaganda machine works very hard
> to suppress or misrepresent
> the flagrant abuse and
> makes the goal of world domination
> seem right to its members.
>
> That's what we are up against!
>
> And its organization
> - when it has the power to influence and manipulate
> the American Government -
> will not hesitate to send the American Government to war,
> for instance against Germany,
> where the evidence of the fascistic and mafia practices
> of the Scientology Organizations
> could not be so heavily suppressed
> by the Scientology Propaganda machines and
> by the Scientology army of criminal lawyers and
> by the Scientology covert intelligence,
> as it has been (and is) in America.
>
> Did you know anything about this?
>
> And the Scientology 'going to war'
> would then be completely justified
> to and by its members
> as bringing a country the spiritual technology and
> as branding that country's government as 'being evil
> for denying its population that superior spiritual
> technology',
> which [spiritual technology] is in fact used in reverse,
> that is:
> To dominate - just as a country's defense weapons
> can be used in reverse, and that is:
> To dominate and control the population into
> subservience.
>
> Did you know anything about this?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "No, these are striking informations."
>
> HOW TO NULLIFY SUCH PROPAGANDA
>
> [Koos:] Don't you think it is vital
> that you inform others about this and
> that you inform yourself further about this?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Yes, I need more information about this!
>
> "What I would like to know from you is:
>
> "How do you figure out that a small sect
> - and America has many, many sects -
> can send the American Government into war against Germany,
> a country that is an important economical and political ally?
>
> "I do not see anything in our American Constitution
> that would allow that, and
> I don't see anyone foolish enough to do that."
>
> "IT WON'T GET THAT FAR"
>
> [Koos:] Good question!
>
> But I hope the answer will not again
> make you feel like a school-girl
> as you mentioned before.
>
> Imagine one country
> having developed an atom bomb and
> keeping a monopoly on it, and it is
> using the laws and the religious-protection-laws of countries
> and
> using the copyright-laws of countries and
> using the trade-secret-laws of countries
> to prevent anybody from learning
> how to make atom bombs, and especially using it
> to prevent anybody from learning enough about atom bombs
> TO BUILD A DEFENSE against atom bombs,
> - anybody, that is, who is not directly
> under their control and domination.
>
> And the other countries
> say: "Well, atom bombs don't exist!"
> Or: "They can't be made!"
> Or: "We are not interested in atom bombs!"
>
> Or they say - staying with our example:
>
> "Atomic physics is used to build atom bombs
> with which to dominate people, and
> we are not interested in dominating people, and
> it is forbidden by our constitution to dominate people,
> so we are not going to study atomic-physics, and
> we certainly are not going to study atomic-physics
> in order to defend ourselves from non-existent atom
> bombs."
>
> "And if we would want to learn atomic-physics,
> we would have to go to this strange sect
> which we don't want to have anything more to do with
> than strictly necessary."
>
> "And we don't investigate them and
> we let them be tax-free,
> because they have a lot of blackmail on us,
> [on] government officials and on government
> institutions:
> In exchange for them not publishing their blackmail
> on us,
> we made a deal with them
> to grant them religious freedom and tax-exemption
> and
> we dropped any investigations into their
> criminal and anti-constitutional activities."
>
> INTIMIDATING GOVERNMENTS
>
> This was in the early 1990's and before.
>
> So the American Government is already pretty much
> under the domination of the Scientology sect.
>
> The State Department is already since some years
> defending and promoting the lies and Propaganda
> of this sect,
> - in, of all places, the United Nations Organization
> for Human Rights(!) - and
> they (the American State Department
> and the other American Government Departments)
> are since some years remarkably silent
> about the very heavy and continuous violations of human
> rights
> by and in the Scientology Organization!
>
> They (the American Government) are remarkably silent
> about the Scientology Organization's
> heavy violations and
> contempt
> of the constitution,
> of all criminal and civil laws,
> of court.
>
> IT IS THERE FOR ALL TO SEE - IF THEY WOULD
>
> All of this is even openly stated
> in the policy of the Scientology Organization.
>
> This includes their [the Scientology Organization's]
> openly stated contempt of the freedom of press.
>
> Any member is strictly forbidden to talk to the press.
> Any journalistic investigation
> is blocked with heavy harassment.
> The Constitution is used
> to HIDE the crimes of the Organization and
> any crimes of its staff
> are heavily covered up by the sect's organization.
>
> The members on staff are very strictly forbidden,
> by openly stated policy,
> to exercise their Constitutional rights
> against any crime committed against them
> by the sect's organization,
> by openly known policy
> they are strictly forbidden from going to any court of law
> to seek or get their right established
> against the organization,
> and if they do or try to,
> the full range of spiritual technology is used
> on them, on the lawyers, on the judges,
> on the witnesses and on the jury
> in order to make the action fail,
> no matter how, and especially when, justified.
>
> In the courts of law, witnesses for their defense
> are especially trained
> to make false and misleading statements when questioned and
> are heavily briefed
> to only give Propaganda.
>
> Does this answer your question to some extent?
>
> "CAN'T BE THAT SERIOUS"
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "This is a very revealing account
> about how they handle court cases.
>
> "But from there it's a long way
> to make the American Government willing to start a war,
> I mean: A war with weapons,
> or what kind of war are you talking about?"
>
> [Koos:] I am saying that
> if they have the chance
> to actually use conventional weapons or to threaten with it,
>
> they would not hesitate.
>
> It is describing the
> determination and
> utter lack of conscience of
> L. Ron Hubbard and his organization,
> driven by immense Propaganda.
>
> Right now the war is fought by different means:
> By pressure,
> by false accusations,
> by fomenting [inciting] conflict,
> by misrepresentation of motives.
>
> And the State Department [of the USA]
> is already putting pressure on the German Government
> to stop investigations of the Scientology Organizations!
>
> Any other organization
> lets itself be investigated by the government.
>
> And there are many laws which give the government THE DUTY
> to investigate organizations
> in order to protect the population, their citizens
> against abuse by organizations
> and even to prevent monopolies
> [and to detect and stop mafia-practices].
>
> The Scientology Organization
> fights for the right NOT to be investigated!
>
> That's all they want in Germany and anywhere else,
> and they have already succeeded in America to obtain that
> right.
>
> ENFORCING THE "RIGHT" NOT TO BE INVESTIGATED
>
> They are fighting for the right in Germany
> that the German Government
> does NOT protect its citizens
> against the well-known and flagrant abuse
> and openly stated contempt (even written in its policies)
> of
> the human rights,
> the constitutional rights and
> the legal rights and
> the freedom of press,
> for its members and potential members.
>
> That is what they are attacking the German Government for, and
>
> they are attacking Germany
> for them having the "right" to infiltrate and to undermine
> its government and its constitutional bodies
> - which any Scientology member is required
> by Scientology policy to undermine and misuse!
>
> But the 'Goebbelses' [Propaganda-people]
> of the Scientology Organizations:
> Its President Heber Jentzsch and
> his criminal friends,
> are putting out the Propaganda
> that they are
> BEING discriminated and
> BEING harassed by the German Government
> (in actual fact in order to assert the "right"
> not to be investigated and actually
> to deny the German Government
> the right to protect its citizens
> from abuse by the Scientology Organization).
>
> The initiative to investigate
> the mafia-practices of the Scientology Organizations
> did not come from the German Government,
> but from members of Scientology
> who were heavily abused, financially ruined,
> betrayed and harassed - but
> who were not intimidated enough
> to keep their mouth shut and
> to close their eyes.
>
> And the abused members have it easier here
> because fascism
> - and the Scientology Organization IS a fascism,
> as I have explained extensively above -
> fascism is forbidden by law in Germany, and
> the legal system is somewhat less supportive
> of criminal lawyers than it is in America.
>
> Lawyers are not rewarded in the same way as in America.
> They have fixed rates and
> they are forbidden to work on a bounty system,
> meaning only being paid when they win and
> being paid a part of what money they win.
>
> But the point is
> that you do as if atom bombs don't exist.
>
> THE FRIGHTENING WEAPON OF SUPERIOR PROPAGANDA
>
> Now I have not only studied physics,
> (see RI-480i 'Koos Nolst Trenite - Life-story' of 14 Feb
> 1996
> at, for instance
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-480i.htm)
> but I also have studied
> the spiritual technology of Scientology,
> and I do know that it does exist.
>
> It is basically and originally
> a technology for finding out the truth
> about anything and about anybody.
>
> [Now that can be used for good and for evil
> - it can be used to free people, and
> it can be used to intimidate people.
> And that's why they SAY they have to protect its use.
> (That's their PROPAGANDA.)
> You see, they insist on the "right"
> that they find out everything about me
> that they then can use to manipulate me
> spiritually and socially -
> but at the same time they insist
> that I am not allowed to or
> (that I am) prevented from
> finding out anything about them,
> especially about their actual intentions and motives.
> (Note by Koos).]
>
> CONTROL BY PROPAGANDA
>
> That's why they so heavily insist
> on a monopoly of only being allowed to use it
> within and under the direct control
> of the Scientology Organization,
> so that you are only finding out
> 'what you are allowed to find out'.
>
> [They even tell their members
> that it is harmful to a person
> to find out things they don't want found out! (Note by
> Koos)]
>
> And that, when you do find something out other than that,
> you are immediately "handled"
> to see that "it was actually different",
> or "how survival it is
> for yourself and
> for continuing your spiritual progress and
> for safeguarding the spiritual future of Mankind"
> that you
> do not inform anybody else or the press or the
> government and
> to strictly keep the information within the
> Organization,
> to not inform any other members and
> to not inform any other staff,
> except - if you feel you must -
> by writing a report to one staffmember,
> called an Ethics Officer,
> who exists in any organization,
> who simply files the report and
> enforces that
> "it is now his responsibility to deal with the
> matter,
> and not your responsibility anymore", and
> who sits back with a yawn and does nothing
> "because he has to protect his seniors' and
> L. Ron Hubbard's and the Organization's
> reputation".
>
> TURNING THEIR SUPERIOR WEAPONS AGAINST THEM
>
> So, I have extensively studied
> this 'atomic physics' of Scientology,
> the spiritual technology,
> and
> I use this truthfinding technology
> - WITHOUT control by the organization -
> in order to find out the truth about them and
> to publish the result [in the 1000 RI-Bulletins so far], and
>
> to inform you and others
> about the results of my investigations,
> in the way that I do now.
>
> THEIR CONTEMPT OF LAW AND HUMAN RIGHTS
>
> So, they are fighting for the right NOT to be investigated.
>
> THEY ARE FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT
> TO BE IN CONTEMPT OF
> ALL CONSTITUTIONS AND LAWS AND HUMAN RIGHTS,
> while using those very constitutions and laws and human rights
>
> to enforce their contempt
> - with the purpose of dominating Mankind
> through their [evil use of]
> superior technology and [their evil use of]
> knowledge of the human mind, their
> technology [laid down in their public and confidential
> Policy Letters and Directives]
> of how to use it in reverse.
>
> Do you still maintain that "the atom bomb does not exist"?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "You just informed me about it.
>
> "Now I know something about it."
>
> IGNORANCE FROM THE MEDIA
>
> [Koos:] Does your husband,
> Ted Turner [of the Time Warner Company and CNN Television]
> know anything about this?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Not more than I did."
>
> [Koos:] So did I answer your question?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "No."
>
> "CAN'T LEAD TO WAR"
>
> [Koos:] So, repeat your question!
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "How could a small sect like Scientology
> manage to incite the American Government and the militaries
> to start a war, I mean a military war, against Germany?
>
> "Whereby I am sure that America would get much protest
> from other European countries.
>
> "And what would be the issue?
>
> "The Americans certainly wouldn't go to war
> to defend the Church of Scientology in Germany
> of maybe [to defend] a few thousand members.
>
> "Regarding everything else what you said about their practices,
> I assume you spoke out of knowledge and investigation.
>
> "I haven't investigated anything from my side,
> but I follow what you said.
>
> "I understand also
> that, as you described the character of the Organization,
> the member or their leaders
> would use war as a means to dominate
> - they would, but COULD they?"
>
> HOW HITLER CAME TO POWER
>
> [Koos:] Right!
>
> We are getting back
> on the subject and
> onto the questions from the beginning of our interview,
> which apparently were well chosen, and
> we talked about the actual conflict leading to war,
> and
> [we talked about] finding the party
> who wants to dominate people and
> [we talked about] investigating and exposing
> the party's intentions and hidden practices.
>
> You remember the film "Julia" that you made,
> where you were the American friend of Julia
> - Julia who fought in the Resistance against Hitler?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Yes."
>
> [Koos:] All right!
>
> Did you study how Hitler
> came to power with a handful of criminals and
> at the end dominated a hundred million people
> into doing nothing but
> making weapons and
> spouting Propaganda to defend the "great nation" -
> with a government that "governed" by
> providing [internal and external] enemies for them to
> fight,
> enemies, that were so-called "threatening the German
> people".
>
> Did you study
> how, with a handful of criminals, he
> came to power and
> in the end had a hundred million people
> cheering him and
> fighting for him to the death
> with great pride of fighting
> "to defend the great nation and the great Hitler"?
>
> (see RI-71Ri 'How Hitler trapped the German People' of 22 Jan
> 1995
> at, for instance,
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-071ri.htm)
>
> Did you study how he came to power,
> how that happened?
>
> I imagine you might, in preparation for that movie,
> have done that. But apparently you didn't.
>
> Right?
>
> THE MOVIE "JULIA" WITH JANE FONDA
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I did study it, and not only
> in preparation for that movie."
>
> [Koos:] Good!
>
> But apparently you didn't UNDERSTAND anything of it.
> Maybe you studied it in school because you had to.
>
> I am getting this from how you acted in that movie called
> "Julia":
> Understanding your own character, yes,
> but not in anyway the character of 'Julia'
> who was played by Vanessa Redgrave.
>
> Now maybe the movie-director wanted you to play
> 'a stupid idiot girl from America',
> naive, dependent on her husband for any self-confidence
> - but nevertheless!
> While (in the movie) away from him and being with your friend
> Julia
> you could (in the movie, as the character that you played)
> have understood her and didn't.
> It was all one big mystery, like:
> "Why this war and what have I to do with it?"
>
> You understand what I mean?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I understand what you mean.
>
> "a) You would have directed the film "Julia" in a different way,
> you would have wanted the character I played
> to be played differently.
> I didn't play it out of a lack of understanding,
> but it was intended [the way I played it].
>
> "b) You want me to understand
> the character of the members or leaders
> of Scientology Organizations, and that I understand
> that they are willing to produce a war
> when hindered to operate
> as you described with your knowledge about them.
>
> c) You inform me about and you want me to take responsibility for
> what is going on in Scientology Organizations, and
> what they are doing to the world.
> You want me to investigate and to further inform myself.
>
> "So, from your knowledge about them,
> how would they go about
> getting the American government
> to start a war against Germany?"
>
> CAUSING THE CONFLICTS - AND HIDING THE CAUSE
>
> [Koos:] This war is already going on publicly since at least a year,
> with huge advertisements in the newspapers,
> containing very false Propaganda against Germany.
>
> They are pressurizing the State Department [into attacking
> Germany
> - Germany that wants to and does protect its citizens
> from the mafia-practices
> that members and ex-members of Scientology
> report to the German Government,
> and not only there,
> but also in Greece, in Spain, in Italy, in France].
>
> They are now pressurizing the
> Helsinki Conference of States [on Human Rights(!)].
>
> They have practically silenced the American Television
> stations,
> ABC, NBC, Ted Turner's CNN,
> to the point that they don't even dare to
> investigate and report to the American population.
>
> Anything that they DO dare report on is:
> Floods, hurricanes, shootings, bombings,
> airplane crashes, and burning oil fields at times.
>
> (I am being sarcastic to get my point across.)
>
> And any German Television journalist just laughs about
> the total irresponsibility and lack of useful information
> of the American television stations,
> who - if they report about a war -
> are not interested
> why there is a war and
> how to stop it, and
> they don't even bother to investigate those things!
>
> THE MEXICAN GOVERNMENT
>
> I just saw a brilliant European feature (or was it Canadian?)
> on how a handful of criminals [the Mexican Government]
> very recently bankrupted the country of Mexico,
> along the lines and spirit
> of similar policies and Propaganda of
> [and probably provided to them by]
> the Scientology Organization.
>
> The president of Mexico and a handful of businessmen
> had a huge program of "bringing business and wealth
> to Mexico and to its population",
> but the wealth went
> to them and to the 'City Bank' and
> to some banks in Switzerland, and
> they were big friends with the American government.
>
> And now the Swiss Federal Police
> is investigating the matter
> in order to clear the already bad reputation of the Swiss
> and
> to get some of the money back to the Mexican people.
>
> All [were] gangsters, you know,
> and the head gangster, the last president of Mexico,
> was even elected by the people.
>
> THREATS AND BLACKMAIL TO SUBDUE GOVERNMENTS
>
> So let's not be so naive about all this:
>
> You don't necessarily have to actually use weapons
> in order to dominate people.
>
> It is often enough only necessary
> to threaten with them, and
> to threaten with trade sanctions, etc.
>
> And in the case of the Scientology Organization,
> they have and had a huge amount of blackmail
> on Government officials, and
> they don't mind using it,
> and [they obviously didn't mind using it]
> in order to indeed, a few years ago, get their
> tax-exempt-statement
> in a secret contract with the government, and
> in order to stop all investigations
> into the Scientology Organizations in America
> - they certainly used the blackmail.
>
> You see, with their spiritual technology
> they are not only getting and writing down
> very extensive and gruelling confessions
> of their members' crimes and illegal acts in life,
> but also the crimes and illegal acts
> that their members know about others.
> And again,
> exactly following the published Policy of their Organization
>
> "to defend" the organization's crimes and
> to increase its power,
> anything goes.
>
> You should investigate the character and nature
> of its leader David Miscavige
> whom I incapacitated a few years ago and
> whose double, look-alike, only appears now and then in
> public.
> Compared to him, Hitler was a likeable guy.
>
> OBJECTIVE OF WAR: TO DOMINATE PEOPLE
>
> So, use of weapons or not,
> the intention is there, very, very strongly,
> to dominate all of Mankind,
> to infiltrate and dominate all governments,
> preferably and easily realized without any use of
> weapons,
> and all that driven by the Propaganda of
> "it is necessary for one's own eternal well-being and
> it is necessary for the eternal well-being of others"
> and
> "we have the superior spiritual technology".
>
> (see the very many RI-Bulletins on the subject
> at, for instance, http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/)
>
> The last argument [superior spiritual technology] is correct,
> but they don't tell you, nor anybody else,
> that it is used
> to dominate and enslave people and
> not as what they advertise it for,
> NOT to free people.
>
> USING GOOD TO ACCOMPLISH EVIL
>
> Which they could use it for and
> which it was originally intended for,
> were it not for the fact that
> his evil sides
> got the better of its founder, L. Ron Hubbard, and
> fully got him in his grip, especially since 1965,
> when he very erroneously decided
> that "he was more perfect
> than anybody else in the universe".
>
> (see also RI-288i 'The Main Evil Purpose' of 15 Oct 1995
> at, for instance,
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-288i.htm)
>
> So the point IS domination of Mankind
> through superior technology, and
> through knowledge about the mind and the spirit
> and
> it's entirely BESIDES the point
> whether this will happen with or without the use
> of conventional military weapons,
> but, if you insist,
> I can assure you,
> that in its final stage of any such a situation,
> all available weapons will be used
> and that happens to include
> conventional military weapons as well.
>
> Did I answer your question now?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Calling me naive!
>
> "Now you answered my question. Thank you."
>
> RESURGENCE OF GOALS FOR MANKIND
>
> [Koos:] So, we started out on your purposes for Mankind.
>
> So the question is:
> 'What do you want to do for Mankind?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I still want that people of all nations
> understand each other." LFBD
>
> [Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I think it's a full-time occupation, LFBDBDBD
> and I am busy with many things. LFBD
>
> "I consider it now more
> a task for several generations to come."
>
> [Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
> for executing your own goals for Mankind,
> instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "My husband,
> politicians,
> the young people. LF
>
> "When I was a kid I wanted to make adults responsible for it
> and now I want to make the kids responsible for it! LFBD
>
> "Looks like I consider it a task that I can't do,
> or only sporadically on a small scale."
>
> [Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Bring about more understanding,
> help to prevent wars."
>
> [Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I think it's a task for all of us.
>
> "(I think I can contribute to others
> who do it on a larger scale than I do it.)"
>
> [Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
> for executing your own goals for Mankind,
> instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "The heads of nations,
> politicians."
>
> [Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I want to give people a liking for themselves."
>
> [Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I have tried to DO it with Aerobic:
>
> "The main intention with it was not
> to make someone like his body more,
> but
> that the person experiences joy
> about being there and moving, and
> that he experiences himself more intensely.
>
> "But it needs many things
> until someone gets a real constant liking of himself.
>
> "I do not have the patience
> to sit with people and listen to their problems."
>
> [Auditor:] Whom are you trying to make responsible
> for executing your own goals for Mankind,
> instead of carrying out your goals yourself?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "Psychologists,
> Scientologists,
> priests,
> people themselves. LFBD
>
> "I could also do something for myself in that respect.
> And that's also good for others,
> because if I like myself, I like other people, too." LFBDBDBD
>
> [Auditor:] What do you want to do for Mankind?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "To bring about more understanding for each other."
>
> GOALS FOR MANKIND RE-ESTABLISHED FOR JANE FONDA
>
> [Auditor:] How are you preventing yourself from doing it?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "It is a big task, and
> sometimes I think it is what I do all the time, and
> sometimes I think I really haven't started yet.
> But the answer lies somewhere in the middle. LFBD
>
> "I WANT to do something for Mankind!
> I WANT to help people
> to understand each other and themselves better,
> I WANT that they understand life better. F
>
> "I have done quite something in that respect,
> but there is so much more to do."
>
> LFBD-F/Nind [= truth establish to the interviewee's satisfaction]
>
> [Koos:] How did you like the Interview with Koos?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I liked the Interview with Koos very much."
>
> [Koos:] Would you like to say or ask anything after the interview?
>
> [Jane Fonda:]
> "I thank Koos for his information and clarification."
>
> LFBD-F/Nind [interviewee satisfied]
>
> 'Jane Fonda'
>
> Total session time: 8 hrs 46 min
>
> Highly specialized Telepathic Auditing
> at 700 US $ per hour, makes 6,137 US $ total cost.
>
> See the Graphic Understanding Display (made by Jutta Nolst Trenite)
> of the FUTURE WAR
> to visualize and fully grasp
> the description of it, above, by Ambassador for Mankind,
>
> at http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-I.gif
> and http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ri-939i-II.gif
>
> * (see RI-771i 'Use of Telepathy' of 4 Jan 1996
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-771i.htm
> RI-896i 'Telepathy - Questions about getting in communication'
> Jun 97
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-896i.htm
> RI-857i 'Telepathy - Telepathic Auditor Training Course' 29 May
> 97
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-857i.htm
>
> ** ('Auditor': Someone who carefully listens.)
>
> *** (The abbreviations sF(small Fall), F(Fall), LF(Long Fall),
> LFBD(Long
> Fall Blow Down) and F/N(Floating Needle) describe reactions on
> the
> E-meter, indicating mental charge (sF, F, LF, LFBD), and release
> of
> charge completed (F/N).
> "LFBD-F/N" = truth found out. "ind" = indicated to the person.)
>
> (see RI-610i 'Understanding the E-meter, correctly' of 26 June
> 1996
> RI-648i 'Simplicity of E-meter use, by UNDERSTANDING it' 1
> Aug 96
> RI-687i 'Notes on E-meter use and Solo-Auditing' of 4 Sept
> 1996
> http://Art-Org.com/ri-bulletins/ri-687i.htm)
>
> Koos Nolst Trenite - Ambassador for Mankind
>
> Copyright 1997 by Koos Nolst Trenite
>
> Personal Web-page:
> http://ArtOrg.com
>
> Personal Web-Library:
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/
>
> Library Search Engine:
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/search.html
>
> References (available at the Library "http://Art-Org.com"):
>
> - About Jane Fonda
>
> RI-587Ri 'Actress Jane Fonda: "This Earth is ours"' of 31 May 96
>
> - About Art and Artists
>
> RI-019Ri 'Artists and Ethics' of 10 Sept 1992
> RI-704Ri 'Real Art is not hard to understand' of 30 Sept 96
> RI-262i 'Creating despite Suppressive Persons' of 20 Aug 1995
>
> - About Hubbard-Scientology-fascism destroying Artists
>
> RI-205i 'FLAG "Tech" destroys Artists' of 8 Jun 1995
> RI-488i 'Very able people at serious risk in Scientology' 23 Feb
> 1996
>
> RI-413RBi 'Michael Jackson broke with L. Ron Hubbard Scientology' 18
> Dec 95
>
> - About Society, Power, War
>
> RI-543i 'Dictators' of 22 July 1994
> RI-939i 'Jane Fonda Interview On Understanding War' of 5 Oct 1997
>
> RI-929i 'Simple Detection: "Sane or Insane?"' of 11 Sept 1997
> RI-602i 'Definition of Power' of 20 June 1996
> RI-629i 'Definition of "Care"' of 12 July 1996
>
> RI-705i 'Society Resurgence, Use of Rules' of 9 Oct 1996
> RI-750i 'Crimes are not motivated by money' of 1 Dec 1996
>
> RI-71Ri 'How Hitler trapped the German People' of 22 Jan 1995
> RI-267i 'Omitted Data on Waging and Ending Wars' of 13 Sep 1995
> RI-603i 'Capitalist - Industrialist - Employee' of 21 Oct 1995
>
> - About the evil of L. Ron Hubbard and of his Scientology-Organization
>
> RI-650Ri 'All Scientologists destroy your Civil Rights everywhere' 5
> Aug 96
> RI-806i 'Scientology-"Religion" - evil in business and science' 16
> Mar 97
>
> RI-783i 'A lesson in Hubbard-Scientology Public Relations' of 19
> Jan 1997
> RI-732i 'The Evil in L. Ron Hubbard's Scientology Philosophy' of 10
> Nov 96
>
> RI-546i 'Support for the being LRH now is Treason to Mankind' 4 May
> 96
> RI-538i 'Official Expulsion of the being LRH from Scn' 17 Apr 96
>
> RI-907i 'A glimpse of spiritual warfare' of 16 July 1997
> RI-868i 'Ron Hubbard's Black Magic against Koos Nolst Trenite' 19
> May 97
>
> - About helping people
>
> RI-631i 'Definition of "Woman"' of 12 July 1996
> RI-629i 'Definition of "Care"' of 12 July 1996
> RI-781BPI 'Raising Children - or Keeping Them Small?' of 16 Jan 1997
>
> RI-537i 'The Right to Demand Awareness' of 15 Apr 1996
> RI-801i '"You can never leave" - The spiritual universe' of 14 Mar
> 1997
> RI-785i 'On Not Remedying Disagreements - "Not Talking"' of 24 Jan
> 1997
>
> RI-602i 'Definition of Power' of 20 June 1996
> RI-705i 'Society Resurgence, Use of Rules' of 9 Oct 1996
>
> RI-925i 'Restoring life-force - Affinity for who and what IS THERE'
> Aug 97
> RI-918i 'Spiritual Power defined correctly' of 4 Aug 1997
>
> - About facing evil and insanity
>
> RI-908i 'The Ostrich-factor - on facing evil or criminality' 16
> July 97
> RI-926i 'I do not respect the right of others to be insane' of 19
> Aug 1997
>
> RI-058Ri 'Fair Game Series - Treatment of Enemies' of 1 Jan 95
> RI-487i 'Dialogue: On Enemies and Hostility' of 20 Feb 1996
> RI-535i '"An Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend" = INSANE' 10 Apr 96
>
> - About RI-Bulletins
>
> RI-380Ri 'Obtaining Truth from the RI-Bulletins' of 1 Nov 1995
> RI-50RQi 'RI-xxxi series Archive - Content and Use' 28 Dec 94
> Revised and Replaced on 6 March 1996
>
> These references and other RI-Bulletins can be obtained, for instance,
>
> at the Library of Koos' writings on
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/usp.htm
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/ao-notes.htm
> http://AmbassadorForMankind.org/ri-bulletins/telepathy.htm
>
> or at the Archives at
> ftp://thetics.europa.com/outgoing/adams/RI
> ftp://thetics.europa.com/outgoing/adams/RI/USP
Re: F**K Hanoi Jane
Author: Richard G. Phillips
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Mon, 13 Oct 1997 00:00
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========================================== Phillips F**K Hanoi Jane, you say? Fantastic. When can I? Let's see, she'd be pushing 60 now but, as they say: "The older the violin; the sweeter the music." =================================== >
Re: FUCK Hanoi Jane [if that's what you mean, say it]
Author: Brian Allardice
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, Mike Kopack <mkopack@greenville.infi.net> says: > >Just my opinion... Each to his own, of course, but had you listened to her earlier some of your friends might still be alive. How many children did you kill? Cheers, dba
Re: F**K Hanoi Jane
Author: Koos Nolst Trenite
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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Please keep your statements within some rational boundaries. If you are upset with Jane Fonda, then RATIONALLY state the matter - I think I did, and I think I did it very, very constructively, more constructively than any of you would have thought possible, maybe. Koos Richard G. Phillips wrote from <rgphill@earthlink.net>: > > ========================================== > Phillips > > F**K Hanoi Jane, you say? > > Fantastic. When can I? Let's see, she'd be pushing 60 now but, as they > say: "The older the violin; the sweeter the music." > > =================================== > >
Re: FUCK Hanoi Jane [if that's what you mean, say it]
Author: Koos Nolst Trenite
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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And how many friends and children did the dictators kill,
Brian Allardice.
(Sorry, Brian, you are so far from actually facing the
subject, that I almost mis-spelled your last name -
but in that respect I guess you are used to exchanges
of irrational appeals to irrational emotions.)
'War is caused by an individual or individuals
who have the intention to destroy life and
who got themselves into a position
to use the country's defense-system for that or
to use any other system for that.'
'Ambassador for Mankind'
Brian Allardice wrote from <dba@uniserve.com>:
>
> In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, Mike Kopack
> <mkopack@greenville.infi.net> says:
> >
> >Just my opinion...
>
> Each to his own, of course, but had you listened to her earlier some of
> your friends might still be alive. How many children did you kill?
>
> Cheers,
> dba
Re: F**K Hanoi Jane
Author: Cambias
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, mkopack@greenville.infi.net wrote: > Just my opinion... > While I tend to agree with your opinion, was it _really_ necessary to embed the _entire_ interview in your post? Cambias
Re: FUCK Hanoi Jane [if that's what you mean, say it]
Author: Dave
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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In article <patjames-1410970743090001@ntsa30.infochan.com>, patjames@super.zippo.com (Splifford) wrote: > In article <61vbc8$e43$14@neptune.uniserve.com>, dba@uniserve.com wrote: > > In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, Mike Kopack > <mkopack@greenville.infi.net> says: > > >Just my opinion... > > Each to his own, of course, but had you listened to her earlier some of > > your friends might still be alive. How many children did you kill? > Millions. I particularly liked the smaller ones, they grunted so good when > you shot them. > Moron. You shot them? Whatever happened to Napalm? You got something against fire? Hey, and how about M79 grenades? You got something against explosions? -- Dave cdstrand@onramp.net
Re: FUCK Hanoi Jane [if that's what you mean, say it]
Author: Splifford
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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In article <61vbc8$e43$14@neptune.uniserve.com>, dba@uniserve.com wrote: > In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, Mike Kopack <mkopack@greenville.infi.net> says: > > > >Just my opinion... > > Each to his own, of course, but had you listened to her earlier some of > your friends might still be alive. How many children did you kill? Millions. I particularly liked the smaller ones, they grunted so good when you shot them. Moron. > > Cheers, > dba -- "I have provided all the data necessary to refute your attacks. If that is zero, zero is all that is needed." --cummins@dialnet.net, yet another creationist cretin.
Re: FUCK Hanoi Jane [if that's what you mean, say it]
Author: Splifford
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Tue, 14 Oct 1997 00:00
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In article <cdstrand-1410971305300001@cpsidfw.flash.net>, cdstrand@onramp.net (Dave) wrote: > In article <patjames-1410970743090001@ntsa30.infochan.com>, patjames@super.zippo.com (Splifford) wrote: > > > In article <61vbc8$e43$14@neptune.uniserve.com>, dba@uniserve.com wrote: > > > > In article <3442AF2A.758E5EEC@greenville.infi.net>, Mike Kopack > > <mkopack@greenville.infi.net> says: > > > > >Just my opinion... > > > > Each to his own, of course, but had you listened to her earlier some of > > > your friends might still be alive. How many children did you kill? > > > Millions. I particularly liked the smaller ones, they grunted so good when > > you shot them. > > > Moron. > > You shot them? Whatever happened to Napalm? You got something against fire? Hey, and how about M79 grenades? You got something against explosions? Bullets are more fun. > -- > Dave > cdstrand@onramp.net -- "I have provided all the data necessary to refute your attacks. If that is zero, zero is all that is needed." --cummins@dialnet.net, yet another creationist cretin.
[Reposted due to Enlow UCE cancel]: Re: F**K Hanoi Jane
Author: William Nauroth
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:00
Date: Fri, 17 Oct 1997 00:00
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There are no boundaries when Jane is involved in the discussion. I, for one, have about as much use for her as I do Coleman. Bill Nauroth A 1/7 1st Air Cav AM 71 CWL #7 n article <34437A5F.23F3@trenite.de> Koos.Trenite@trenite.de writes: >Please keep your statements within some rational boundaries. > >If you are upset with Jane Fonda, then RATIONALLY state > the matter - I think I did, and I think I did it very, > very constructively, more constructively than any of you > would have thought possible, maybe. > >Koos > > > > > >Richard G. Phillips wrote from <rgphill@earthlink.net>: >> >> ========================================== >> Phillips >> >> F**K Hanoi Jane, you say? >> >> Fantastic. When can I? Let's see, she'd be pushing 60 now but, as they >> say: "The older the violin; the sweeter the music." >> >> =================================== >> > > > ========= WAS CANCELLED BY =======: Rogue cancel from Michael Enlow, X-Cancelled-by etc. are forged. Control: cancel <627ukv$6d6u@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Newsgroups: soc.culture.german Path: ...!news.hn.netlink.co.nz!canterbury.ac.nz!southpower.co.nz!nobody From: rra@eyrie.org,sw@eyrie.org,rgm@eyrie.org Subject: cmsg cancel <627ukv$6d6u@lamar.ColoState.EDU> Approved: rra@eyrie.org,sw@eyrie.org,rgm@eyrie.org Message-ID: <cancel.627ukv$6d6u@lamar.ColoState.EDU> X-No-Archive: Yes Sender: bills@lamar.ColoState.EDU (William Nauroth) X-Cancelled-By: rra@eyrie.org,sw@eyrie.org,rgm@eyrie.org Organization: Southpower Ltd Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 05:22:34 GMT Lines: 2 The article was canceled on 10/19/97 at 1:12:47 AM with the Usenet Cancel Engine (UCE).
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