🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Aug13.040731.2286@cs.mcgill.ca> tennis@cs.mcgill.ca (Pascal PROULX) writes:

>The following article was taken from the PC WORLD ONLINE via the America
>Online BBS and is an important warning for all MS WINDOWS 3.1 users.

>The following information was passed on to PC WORLD ONLINE by PCW George,
>(George Campbell, a PC WORLD Editor).

>"After considerable testing, I have discovered a major problem with the 
>version of SmartDrive included with Windows 3.1. The default installation
>of SMARTDRV.EXE enables write caching on your hard disks. Most often this
>is not a problem but, under certain circumstances, it could crash your hard
>disk. A typical situation is described below :

>1) If you use a program wich handles multiple boot-up configurations by using
>   alternative Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files then automatically
>   re-booting, SmartDrive won't write the new files to the hard disk before
>   the computer reboots. This could cause damage to you FAT table if the disk
>   write is only partiallt completed. In most cases, however, the copying job
>   will not be done, and the computer will reboot safely.

Ok.

>2) In some Windows programs, not enough time is allowed for SmartDRive to
>   write files to disk. In this case, if you shut off your computer for some 
>   reason, your files will not be saved. In the worst scenario, your FAT tables
>   may be damaged.

This could happen without smartdrive.  Windows is unpredicatble about when
it will decide to write something to disk.  Solution: don't turn your
PC off without exiting Windows and parking your drive heads.

>3) If a power failure occurs during the gap before cached data is written to
>   the hard disk, you could damage your FAT tables.

This could happen without smartdrive, too.  Solution: buy a UPS.  Nothing
else can give you nearly perfect protection.


>Tip from George Campbell (PCWGeorge)
 ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
   "This must be Thursday.  I never could get the hang of Thursdays"
                                                          - D Adams
  - Patrick Taylor
    Ericsson Network Systems
    exuptr@exu.ericsson.se             "Don't let the .se fool you"
    alternately, exuptr@ZGNews.Lonestar.Org

In article <1992Aug13.040731.2286@cs.mcgill.ca> George Mitchell (passed on)
writes...
>
>The following article was taken from the PC WORLD ONLINE via the America
>Online BBS and is an important warning for all MS WINDOWS 3.1 users.
>
>The following information was passed on to PC WORLD ONLINE by PCW George,
>(George Campbell, a PC WORLD Editor).
>
>"After considerable testing, I have discovered a major problem with the 
>version of SmartDrive included with Windows 3.1. The default installation
>of SMARTDRV.EXE enables write caching on your hard disks. Most often this
>is not a problem but, under certain circumstances, it could crash your hard
>disk. A typical situation is described below :
>
>
>
>
>Tip from George Campbell (PCWGeorge)

George is correct that this is dangerous.  This, however, is neither a bug
nor a problem with the Win 3.1 smartdrive program.  

I have been using this smartdrive and a write-back cache for a few months, 
and I don't mind it at all.  The only trick is to call smartdrv /c prior to
rebooting.  As a matter of fact, it is not a bad idea to do this occasionally
as you are running (Anyone write a Windows cron utility? or a cron TSR?).  
Unix users (who have actually seen a console, or administer) are familiar 
with this potential difficulty, and have lived with it for years. 

The problem is PC users who don't think before they flip the switch, and 
Microsoft not trapping the warmboot vector to flush the cache before a 
warmboot.  Of course trapping a power-off is a little more difficult from 
the software side.

Matt Woodward

That's not the end of it.  The new SmartDrive that comes with Windows 3.1
SUCKS!  It gave me such a headache because I always got errors when I tried
to download files.  The Write Cache would mess up the timings that my
comm program had.  And it's not that my computer is too slow (I have a
486-50).  Just turn the SmartDrv write cache off and save yerself a lot of
headaches.  Believe me.

Those stupid people at Microsoft.  First, they come up with a runt OS called
MS-DOS and keep modifying it so they can trick the consumer into thinking
it is actually semi-efficient. (It's not efficient, you just gotta spend the 
big bucks for a fast computer.)  Then, they come out with the ugliest looking
flight simulator out there (who like those graphics anyways?).  Now, they
come out with Windows. Their biggest trimuph.  Multi-tasking my butt.
AND WHAT?!  Bill Gates is the richest executive out there.  Life can be so
ironic.

There's a fair amount of disinformation in both of these posts.. 
I don't speak for Microsoft, just for me.

>>>
* exuptr@exu.ericsson.se (Patrick Taylor) Has publicly proclaimed:
*
>In article <1992Aug13.040731.2286@cs.mcgill.ca> tennis@cs.mcgill.ca (Pascal PROULX) writes:
>
>>The following article was taken from the PC WORLD ONLINE via the America
>>Online BBS and is an important warning for all MS WINDOWS 3.1 users.
>
>>The following information was passed on to PC WORLD ONLINE by PCW George,
>>(George Campbell, a PC WORLD Editor).
>
>>"After considerable testing, I have discovered a major problem with the 
>>version of SmartDrive included with Windows 3.1. The default installation
>>of SMARTDRV.EXE enables write caching on your hard disks. Most often this
>>is not a problem but, under certain circumstances, it could crash your hard
>>disk. A typical situation is described below :
>
>>1) If you use a program wich handles multiple boot-up configurations by using
>>   alternative Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files then automatically
>>   re-booting, SmartDrive won't write the new files to the hard disk before
>>   the computer reboots. This could cause damage to you FAT table if the disk
>>   write is only partiallt completed. In most cases, however, the copying job
>>   will not be done, and the computer will reboot safely.
>
>Ok.

Any and ALL caching programs do this. Any program that is going to do disk I/O
should be checking the multiplexer (int 2Fh and int 31h) and the VM state. 
Further, all files should be closed, and flushed. If the file is, however, in
the process of being written, all that can happen is the allocation entry for 
file is incomplete. Left unchecked this can cause corruption, in rare cases. 


>
>>2) In some Windows programs, not enough time is allowed for SmartDRive to
>>   write files to disk. In this case, if you shut off your computer for some 
>>   reason, your files will not be saved. In the worst scenario, your FAT tables
>>   may be damaged.
>
>This could happen without smartdrive.  Windows is unpredicatble about when
>it will decide to write something to disk.  Solution: don't turn your
>PC off without exiting Windows and parking your drive heads.

Exactly, well almost. Most modern (last 3-5 years) drives don't need to be 
parked. In fact, if you try and park a sector translation drive (IDE,ESDI,SCSI)
with an old MFM utility you can do nasty things to the drive.

Windows isn't that unpredictable when it will write things to disk. If you're 
not swapping you're usually ok. In all cases you should close any app before
exiting windows. If you don't it's not "Windows" that isn't writing things
out, it's each individual app, which has files open. The PageFile VxD can't 
be corrupted by a shutdown, if it's writing, only open files can.

None of the above are Smartdrv problems. Smartdrv provides a pool of memory to
windows to cache the disks with. It was decided, however, to leave default
caching of INI files out of win 3.1 for this (and a few other) reasons. 

>
>>3) If a power failure occurs during the gap before cached data is written to
>>   the hard disk, you could damage your FAT tables.
>
>This could happen without smartdrive, too.  Solution: buy a UPS.  Nothing
>else can give you nearly perfect protection.

This can ruin your day if you're running ANYTHING ON ANY computer. 


You're trying to blame a single item with generic dangers of Computing.
What do you do if you have a caching controller and the power dies.
I mean , write behind is not the best thing to use for data security if 
you want speed. But YOU the USER must be logical and responsible. Turning a 
machine off with files open is known to cause problems, regardless of the OS.

Just trying to clarify...
					-mikey
-- 
|mikey@cs.mcgill.ca-Mike Gallop- t-mikeg@microsoft.com        McGill Comp Sci |
|Programming n. 1. The art of debugging a blank sheet of paper.	              |
|	       	2. A pastime similar to banging one's head against a wall, but|
| but with fewer opportunities for reward.                                    |

In article <1992Aug13.234004.4569@msuinfo.cl.msu.edu>, chena@crs.cl.msu.edu (Antony Chen) writes...
> 
>That's not the end of it.  The new SmartDrive that comes with Windows 3.1
>SUCKS!  It gave me such a headache because I always got errors when I tried
>to download files.  The Write Cache would mess up the timings that my
>comm program had.  And it's not that my computer is too slow (I have a
>486-50).  Just turn the SmartDrv write cache off and save yerself a lot of
>headaches.  Believe me.
> 

Perhaps its your Comm program - I use SmartDrive with ProComm Plus for
Windows and have no problems at all.

>Those stupid people at Microsoft.  First, they come up with a runt OS called
>MS-DOS and keep modifying it so they can trick the consumer into thinking
>it is actually semi-efficient. (It's not efficient, you just gotta spend the 
>big bucks for a fast computer.)

So get Unix or OS/2 ... then you need a fast computer that also has
a _LOT_ of RAM and disk storage...

>  Then, they come out with the ugliest looking
>flight simulator out there (who like those graphics anyways?).

The graphics are about as good as EGA will give you. As for the panel
layout, they were probably going for realism.  (Ever been in a small
airplane?  The average small airplane instrument panel looks pretty
primitive, even with the high-tech instruments and avionics)

>Now, they
>come out with Windows. Their biggest trimuph.  Multi-tasking my butt.
>AND WHAT?!  Bill Gates is the richest executive out there.  Life can be so
>ironic.

Yes -- we can start reading a posting about SmartDrive which turns into
a flame about Microsoft, MS-Dos, MS Flight Sim, Windows, and Bill Gates.
Why don't you just buy something else and leave the rest of us alone?

------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Steven A. McCluney                 |"Strange women lying in ponds    |
| sam4628@zeus.tamu.edu              | distributing swords is no basis |
| I'm a grad student, so my opinions | for a system of government!"    |
|    are worthless anyway            |          Dennis, to King Arthur |
------------------------------------------------------------------------

In article <1992Aug13.202720.22761@serval.net.wsu.edu> mwoodwar@yoda.eecs.wsu.edu (woodward matthew d - CS350) writes:
>In article <1992Aug13.040731.2286@cs.mcgill.ca> George Mitchell (passed on)
>
>I have been using this smartdrive and a write-back cache for a few months, 
>and I don't mind it at all.  The only trick is to call smartdrv /c prior to
>rebooting.  As a matter of fact, it is not a bad idea to do this occasionally
>as you are running (Anyone write a Windows cron utility? or a cron TSR?).  

	wincron.zip is available from ftp.cica.indiana.edu.

	I don't know anything about this program.

	Marc 'em.

-- 
  storm@cs.mcgill.ca           McGill University         C program run.  Run  
  Marc Wandschneider           Montreal, CANADA          Program run! PLEASE!
      "When 900 years old you reach, look as good you will not." - Yoda
				"Ow!" -J.F.K.~

In referenced article, tennis@cs.mcgill.ca (Pascal PROULX) writes:
>"After considerable testing, I have discovered a major problem with the 
>version of SmartDrive included with Windows 3.1. The default installation
>of SMARTDRV.EXE enables write caching....
>
>1) If you use a program wich handles multiple boot-up configurations by using
>   alternative Autoexec.bat and Config.sys files then automatically
>   re-booting, SmartDrive won't write the new files to the hard disk before
>   the computer reboots. This could cause damage to you FAT table

This can be overcome by inserting the command

    SMARTDRV /C

prior to the reboot command.  This causes SMARTDRV to complete all write
operations (flush its cache) before continuing.

>2) In some Windows programs, not enough time is allowed for SmartDRive to
>   write files to disk. In this case, if you shut off your computer for some 
>   reason, your files will not be saved. In the worst scenario, your FAT tables
>   may be damaged.
>
>3) If a power failure occurs during the gap before cached data is written to
>   the hard disk, you could damage your FAT tables.

Both of these "problems" are cases of your system being turned off while
writing to disk.  This is a bad idea whether there is a write cache active
or not!!

As far as a power failure is concerned, using SMARTDRV in no way
exacerbates the problem.

In other circumstances, yes, the timing pattern of writes is different when
using SMARTDRV and you have to get used to it, but the solution is simple -
don't switch off your computer under any circumstances until all disk
activity is complete.

This is all true of any disk cache with a write-behind feature, and is not
specific to SMARTDRV (which in my experience, behaves flawlessly).

>Disable write-caching in SmartDrive.

I see absolutely no need to recommend this.
-- 
Ray Dunn at home    |    ray@philmtl.philips.ca    |    (514) 630 3749