🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:

>	Oh well, I now compromise: When I power up I turn on the
>monitor first then the computer, when I power down I turn off the
>monitor first then the computer. 	
>	:), any comments?

	Leave the computer on all the time. :)))))
	I don't know the answer (is there an answer?).  The only thing 
that comes to mind is that unless you turn the montior on 1st and let it 
warm up a little you'll miss the very 1st bit of the startup screen.  
This is usually not important but the times you do *need* to see it you 
pretty much have to turn on the monitor 1st.

	It's the same as the debate about whether the computer should be 
left on all the time or not.  One side debates that be leaving it on all 
the time you wear out the components faster (Like the hard drive 
mechanism)  and the other says that the most damage happens when you turn 
the computer on and all those cold circuit board have to re-heat - and 
then cool down and the reheat next time you turn it on..... 

	I just leave mine on all the time but turn off the monitor when 
I'm not using it.  

	Dana
-- 
--
Dana Echtner - Computer Users' Group Prez
Need help?  Email cughelp@cug.concordia.ca!            Make money fast!
                                                       Don't give it any food.

In article <52rf7j$584@newsflash.concordia.ca>,
Dana Echtner <dana@domingo.concordia.ca.concordia.ca> wrote:
>
>	I don't know the answer (is there an answer?).  The only thing 
>that comes to mind is that unless you turn the montior on 1st and let it 
>warm up a little you'll miss the very 1st bit of the startup screen.  
>This is usually not important but the times you do *need* to see it you 
>pretty much have to turn on the monitor 1st.

With "energy-saving" monitors the sequence is a bit different;
- turn on monitor
- monitor shuts itself because there's no input signal
- turn on computer
- startup screen is presumably displayed, but you'll never know for sure
- monitor turns on

In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
>	Oh well, I now compromise: When I power up I turn on the
>monitor first then the computer, when I power down I turn off the
>monitor first then the computer. 	
>	:), any comments?

Thank goodness for power bars.

	Hummm, I've always learned to turn the computer on first and then 
the monitor. I'm sure that this is what companies and manufacturers 
suggest. I think there's something to do with surges and stuff.


-- 
* Bobby Chan                                                                *
* kwb_cha@alcor.concordia.ca         ___ __o        "Put some excitement    *
* Concordia University              --- -\<.         between your legs...   *
* Montreal, Quebec, CANADA        ((( (_)/(_)        Ride a Mountain Bike!" *

->From: dana@domingo.concordia.ca.concordia.ca (Dana Echtner)
->	Leave the computer on all the time. :)))))
	Hehe, I've been rather hesitant about that since I haven't got
any electricity bills yet. My computer is on for a major part of the
day though but for a dumb reason (my radio and computer share the same
speakers). Annoyingly I haven't figured out how to get linux to
powerdown the hard-drive. 

->the computer on and all those cold circuit board have to re-heat - and 
->then cool down and the reheat next time you turn it on..... 
	Now I got a good reason!

->From: david@donald.concordia.ca (David Gaudine)
->Thank goodness for power bars.
	Hey thanks for the advice, I'll part with the $5. Come to
think of it my appartment doesn't even have earth grounding(took apart
the socket and counted the wires) but the landlord isn't impressed. Is
that legal? I mean, having an electrical installation with no grounding?

->With "energy-saving" monitors the sequence is a bit different;
->- turn on monitor
->- monitor shuts itself because there's no input signal
->- turn on computer
->- startup screen is presumably displayed, but you'll never know for sure
->- monitor turns on
	Yeah! My monitor actually first gives a warning and goes to
stand-by for about a minute then powers down. I thought this might be
the reason the monitor manufacturers recommended turning on the
computer than the monitor (to lessen the complaints from confused customers).

->From: kwb_cha@alcor.concordia.ca (Bobby Chan)
->	Hummm, I've always learned to turn the computer on first and then 
->the monitor. I'm sure that this is what companies and manufacturers 
->suggest. I think there's something to do with surges and stuff.
	Well lets assume the monitor causes a surge. It would seem
that the computer is more at risk if it is on than if not. So maybe
that would mean turn on the monitor first then the computer.
	Navin.

--
========================================================================
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged
demo.
[Tue 01 Oct 1996, fortune]
========================================================================

------------------------
->From: Alan Shutko <ats@hubert.wustl.edu>
->Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
[snip]
->I always thought that it was because the monitor puts a huge drain on
->the power, and you'd rather isolate your delicate electronics from
->such an occurrence.  For power off, turning off the monitor when the
->computer is on might lead to a surge in the computer, also to be avoided.

->Nowadays, I suppose the power is plentiful enough that it doesn't
->matter.  Or computer manufacturers have forgotten....

->--
->Alan Shutko <ats@hubert.wustl.edu> - The Few, the Proud, the Remaining.
->A Thousand Points of Broccoli

----------------------------------
->From: dpeschel@u.washington.edu (Derek Peschel)
->Newsgroups: alt.folklore.computers
[snip]
->Years ago, I had a friend whose family owned a TRS-80 Model III.  He told me
->that pushing the reset button sent a power spike through the disk drives,
->which would clobber any disks that happened to be in the drives.

->Probably, Commodore's advice dates from a time when computers had more quirks
->in their designs (like the TRS-80's disk drive quirk).  Same with the advice
->not to put diskettes on top of monitors.

->-- Derek

Navindra UMANEE (navindra@lisa.cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:

: speakers). Annoyingly I haven't figured out how to get linux to
: powerdown the hard-drive. 

Hmm... try getting a new kernel (2.0.20?) and compiling it with
energy saving on.  You might have to select `experimental 
drivers' for this to appear.

Cheers,

Simon.

--
 .,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,
;       Simon Thornington        ;
;            Thistle             ;
 '`C`'`Be`'`DQ`'`PGP`'`Shad`'`Eh`

In article <52sik4$pl0@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>	Hehe, I've been rather hesitant about that since I haven't got
>any electricity bills yet.

It doesn't cost much to run a computer, especially if you turn off the
monitor.

>day though but for a dumb reason (my radio and computer share the same
>speakers). Annoyingly I haven't figured out how to get linux to
>powerdown the hard-drive. 

I don't think that would help you much anyway.  We're probably talking
about a few cents per month on your hydro bill.  If you mean for
longevity, we've left computers on for years with the original drives.

>	Hey thanks for the advice, I'll part with the $5. Come to
>think of it my appartment doesn't even have earth grounding(took apart
>the socket and counted the wires) but the landlord isn't impressed. Is
>that legal? I mean, having an electrical installation with no grounding?

Not in a new building, which probably means anything after 1965 or so.
Most older buildings don't have a working ground.

>	Well lets assume the monitor causes a surge. It would seem
>that the computer is more at risk if it is on than if not.

* davidg gives a skeptical look

In article <52toh1$meo@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
thorns@cs.mcgill.ca <thorns@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>
>Hmm... try getting a new kernel (2.0.20?) and compiling it with
>energy saving on.  You might have to select `experimental 
>drivers' for this to appear.

That doesn't work for me.  The option is there, but it seems like
there's something else that has to be done.

In article <52ts0j$875@newsflash.concordia.ca>,
David Gaudine <david@donald.concordia.ca> wrote:
>In article <52toh1$meo@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
>thorns@cs.mcgill.ca <thorns@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>>
>>Hmm... try getting a new kernel (2.0.20?) and compiling it with
>>energy saving on.  You might have to select `experimental 
>>drivers' for this to appear.
>
>That doesn't work for me.  The option is there, but it seems like
>there's something else that has to be done.

     Try using hdparm to do this.  Also most new BIOS will have this
     feature.

     					- Kent

In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> navindra@cs.mcgill.ca writes:
>	I remember when I was younger, going through the manual for my
>Dad's C64 and coming across the recommendation to turn on the
>peripherals first and then the computer (reverse order on powerdown)
>-- no reasons given. Since then I have religiously followed these
>instructions on all computers I used -- especially since most manuals
>said the same thing (first the monitor then the computer and reverse
>on powerdown).
>.....

Many monitors have poorly designed switches.  The button at the front
is the end of a flimsy plastic rod that operates the electrical switch
at the back.  After a few hundred cycles, the rod gives up and you can't
switch the monitor on or off.  Processor switches are usually better,
but I've experienced problems with them too.

Morale: plug everything into a power-bar (like David Gaudine says)
and switch the power-bar.  The power-bar switch is unlikely to wear
out but, when it does, spend another $10 and get a new power-bar.

I have owned or operated a dozen or so systems and I have never
encountered one that minded the power-up/down sequence.

Peter

> In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca> navindra@cs.mcgill.ca writes:
> >	I remember when I was younger, going through the manual for my
> >Dad's C64 and coming across the recommendation to turn on the
> >peripherals first and then the computer (reverse order on powerdown)
> >-- no reasons given. Since then I have religiously followed these
> >instructions on all computers I used -- especially since most manuals
> >said the same thing (first the monitor then the computer and reverse
> >on powerdown).
> >.....

Yes... and I always wondered myself: sometimes I hit the reset button 
when I really mean to switch off my computer (the 2 buttons being alike and 
next to each other).  In this case, is it better to let the computer reboot 
completely and then shut down OR just hit the power button while keeping 
the reset button pressed and then release them both at exactly the same time?
This kind of situation can really get to you, can't it?  I mean just the 
thought of doing something so wrong to your computer... 

At one point in cyberspacetime, Kent Tse wrote:
->     Try using hdparm to do this.  Also most new BIOS will have this
->     feature.
	I haven't looked up hdparm. But the fact that the BIOS has
this feature is irrelevant since linux (at least the one I installed)
makes a point of not using the BIOS code. The reason is that linux
allegedly provides its own more efficient 32-bit BIOS code. In fact I
was specifically told that linux did a much better job of power saving
when installing it. People have been known to call linux "broken"
because it doesn't use BIOS.

		Navin.

--
========================================================================
Mark's Dental-Chair Discovery:
	Dentists are incapable of asking questions that require a
	simple yes or no answer.
[Wed 02 Oct 1996, fortune]
========================================================================

In article <52v1he$msk@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
>	I haven't looked up hdparm. But the fact that the BIOS has
>this feature is irrelevant since linux (at least the one I installed)
>makes a point of not using the BIOS code.

     I didn't say that linux used the BIOS to shutdown your
     hard drive.  If you enable this feature in the BIOS, the BIOS will
     turn the disk off, not Linux.

     Hdparm allows to take advantage of your EIDE drives in your
     system (32-bit I/O support [note that you get 32-bit support only
     across the PCI or VLB bus to the IDE ports only, the ribbon cable
     is still 16-bits]), as well as, PIO modes, read-only mode,
     standby timeout for the drive, etc.

     					- Kent

At one point in cyberspacetime,
Kent Tse (kent@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:

->     I didn't say that linux used the BIOS to shutdown your
->     hard drive.  If you enable this feature in the BIOS, the BIOS will
->     turn the disk off, not Linux.
	Hmmmm, funny. The BIOS _is_ set to turn off my disk. The BIOS
is set to do a lot of things but when running linux none of them
happen. They work with DOS though.

->     Hdparm allows to take advantage of your EIDE drives in your
->     system (32-bit I/O support [note that you get 32-bit support only
->     across the PCI or VLB bus to the IDE ports only, the ribbon cable
->     is still 16-bits]), as well as, PIO modes, read-only mode,
->     standby timeout for the drive, etc.
	Yup, I looked it up though my first shot was unsuccessful
(hdparm -S 20 /dev/hda). I probably have to recompile the kernel too
as Simon suggested.
	Navin.

--
========================================================================
Weinberg's Principle:
	An expert is a person who avoids the small errors while
	sweeping on to the grand fallacy.
[Wed 02 Oct 1996, fortune]
========================================================================

On 1 Oct 1996, Navindra UMANEE wrote:

> 	I remember when I was younger, going through the manual for my
> Dad's C64 and coming across the recommendation to turn on the
> peripherals first and then the computer (reverse order on powerdown)
> -- no reasons given. Since then I have religiously followed these
> instructions on all computers I used -- especially since most manuals
> said the same thing (first the monitor then the computer and reverse
> on powerdown).
> 
> 	Of course I was always disgruntled and annoyed when almost all
> so-called "technicians" invariably turn on the computer first and then

	Well now computers turn your your monitor on and off 
automatically when you power up and powering down.


George Skarpathiotakis			Don't believe in anything
HTTP://WWW.CS.McGill.CA/~Ventura	because evreything is true even
					the false things.  How can this
					be true? Don't ask me I didn't
					do it.
Fnord is everywhere.
				--- The Principia Discordia.

At one point in cyberspacetime,
Navindra UMANEE (navindra@lisa.cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:

->At one point in cyberspacetime,
->Kent Tse (kent@milquetoast.cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:

->->     I didn't say that linux used the BIOS to shutdown your
->->     hard drive.  If you enable this feature in the BIOS, the BIOS will
->->     turn the disk off, not Linux.
->	Hmmmm, funny. The BIOS _is_ set to turn off my disk. The BIOS
->is set to do a lot of things but when running linux none of them
->happen. They work with DOS though.

	Yeah! You're right. Sorry. How dumb I am thinking the linux
could override BIOS (I speculated that it emulated shadow ram...:)). I
set the BIOS to the minimum time to powerdown the hard disk which is
one minute. The problem is that invariably linux accessed the
hard-disk before the one minute was up. I had to kill virtually every
background job but finally the hard-disk did powerdown after one
minute. It was previously set to 3 minutes so I didn't have a chance.
Ignore the lies about "a lot of things not happenning" :)
	Navin.

At one point in cyberspacetime,
George SKARPATHIOTAKIS (ventura@cs.mcgill.ca) wrote:

->	Well now computers turn your your monitor on and off 
->automatically when you power up and powering down.
	No they don't. It's probably because you plugged your monitor
into your computer's "power supply" and the socket is activated when
you turn the computer on. Unfortunately my monitor's plug doesn't fit
into my computer's socket.
	Navin.

In article <530m99$rah@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>, navindra@cs.mcgill.ca wrote:

> ->      Well now computers turn your your monitor on and off 
> ->automatically when you power up and powering down.
>         No they don't. It's probably because you plugged your monitor
> into your computer's "power supply" and the socket is activated when
> you turn the computer on. Unfortunately my monitor's plug doesn't fit
> into my computer's socket.

I really didn't want to get involved in this conversation, but I feel I
must make a subtle point. In some operating systems where hardware and
software were conceived as one logical part, the computer is actually able
to power the monitor as well as probe it to find out exactly what kind of
monitor it is, including gathering all the sync rates, etc. Moreover, when
multiple monitors are present, the video cards in the above machine can
detect the presence of other monitors, and make decisions about the way
things should be represented in terms of virtual screens. These same
systems can shut a monitor down first and then turn themselves off.

-- 
Eric Bourque

Centre for Intelligent Machines
McGill University
ericb@cim.mcgill.ca

David Gaudine (david@donald.concordia.ca) wrote:
: In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>,
: Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca> wrote:
: >
: >	Oh well, I now compromise: When I power up I turn on the
: >monitor first then the computer, when I power down I turn off the
: >monitor first then the computer. 	
: >	:), any comments?

: Thank goodness for power bars.

Why don't you just plug your monitor into the power supply outlet?
Then you can use that big power on/off red flip switch for both.
(or if you don't have that anachronism, your regular PC power switch)

In article <52rcb7$oo3@sifon.cc.mcgill.ca>
NU := Navindra UMANEE <navindra@cs.mcgill.ca>

NU>	I remember when I was younger, going through the manual for my Dad's
NU>C64 and coming across the recommendation to turn on the peripherals first
NU>and then the computer (reverse order on powerdown)
NU>-- no reasons given. Since then I have religiously followed these
NU>instructions on all computers I used -- especially since most manuals
NU>said the same thing (first the monitor then the computer and reverse
NU>on powerdown).

   Monitors collect a considerable amount of electrical charge, even when
they are unplugged -- try opening one up and touch the back of the tube.
[DISCLAIMER: I AM KIDDING!  NEVER OPEN YOUR MONITOR CASE!  YOU RISK AN
ELECTRIC SHOCK THAT CAN SEND YOU FLYING ACROSS THE ROOM, EVEN WHEN THE POWER
IS OFF AND THE MONITOR IS UNPLUGGED!]  By turning on the monitor first and
letting it settle down to its operating voltage, you reduce the risk of
destroying electronic equipment that may be sensitive to static charge.


   I do not think that this is as much of a big deal now since technology
has advanced considerably since the C64 era, although as someone has already
pointed out, most modern graphics cards detect the monitor at power-up.  If
the monitor is not turned on first, your graphics card may not work as
expected.

--
    ____________________________________________________________________
     Chris O'Regan <chris@ECE.Concordia.CA>, UNIX Systems Administrator
              Department of Electrical and Computer Engineering
                   Concordia University, Montreal, Canada
                http://www.ECE.Concordia.CA/~chris/addr.html