🚀 go-pugleaf

pspat@opera.iinet.net.au (Patrick Canion) writes:

G'day again Patrick,

>>Since the discussion here is generally futile, I was hoping to avoid
>>this, but yes, this is selfish and intolerant. 

>Would it be selfish and intolerant if I wanted to give you all a
>million dollars?

Yes. Can you imagine the chaos that would result if you did this?
Hyper-inflation, bank closures, a stock-market gone insane, depression,
murder, mayhem and madness. Very selfish. As to intolerant, if you were
to force riches on someone who didn't want them, I think that'd qualify -
read Fred Pohl's "The Midas Plague" for a scenario that might be realistic
come the nanotech age of plenty.

Good intentions aren't enough, you see - you have to think about the
effects of your actions.

>Have I represented him this badly?  It's just that the god you
>describe is nothing like my God, who loves you and me more than we'll
>ever comprehend.

Um, this is the same god who tore apart the innocent children who mocked
Elisha? The one that tortured Job on a wager with the Satan?  The same
one that sends non-believers to eternal fiery lakes?  The one that
promotes racial intolerance ("chosen people" my arse), punishes children
for the sins of their parents, and generally carries on like an old-series
Star Trek villain? Do you really think all that is love?

>>Of course I am happy for you that you have a faith that pleases you. I
>>simply can't see why you can't be happy for me that I have a faith that
>>pleases me.

>I don't recall ever phrasing my argument in this manner - in fact I
>recall that this thread started with me simply giving an explanation
>of my Christian perspective on legislative responses to euthanasia.
>Maybe its the fact that I believe that there is at least one
>"Absolute" in this universe that prompts the antipathy?

Patrick, I have no particular antipathy for your religion, but I don't
see why you expect me to accept its precepts without believing in it, or
believe it without empirical evidence for it. In fact I have an open
mind on your religion, though if I were a gambling man I'd not rate it's
chances of matching what's going on so highly as some of its peers.

>I'm sorry Peter, but I know you're intelligent enough to appreciate
>that there is a jump between me expressing my opinions and "promoting
>religious intolerance".  

You've actively promoted laws prohibiting me from following my beliefs.
If that's not intolerance, I wonder what you think intolerance is - must
the jackboots be at the door before you'll feel a twinge of guilt?

>I would be just as justified in saying
>"Peter, you sound like a nice guy, but how can you interfere in my
>carrying on of life by ramming your non-Christian views down my
>throat?  It's this sort of attitude that sparks off stock-market
>crashes."  In other words, tolerance cuts both ways - let's maintain
>some honesty in our discussion.

Come on Patrick, you might as well suggest that jews, by remembering the
holocaust, are being intolerant to nazis. Tolerance is letting people
live as they wish, except when their doing so would infringe on the
ability of others to do so. Despising intolerance is not intolerant.

>Nope - but it sought to change the institution from within, by
>changing the hearts and minds of the people so that they no longer
>desired to see their fellow men and women imprisoned.  Refer to the
>book of Philemon (it's just a short one - only take about 5 minutes to
>read) to see what I mean.

Why go so far as Philemon? I read in Genesis that your god made one of
Noah's sons the slave of the others for the sin of catching sight of
Noah's dick while Noah was passed out on vino. Seems a little unloving
to me ...

But see 

http://users.uniserve.com/~tfrisen/Slavery.html 

for extensive bible quotes promoting slavery, and 

http://users.uniserve.com/~tfrisen/c29slave.html 

for some discussion of same. While you're at it, you might like 

http://www.uh.edu/campus/msa/bible.html

for extensive criticism of all things biblical ... 

-- 
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