🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <01bc4e96$1ca704e0$LocalHost@RodsPC.dragnet.com.au>, "rod speed"
<rspeed@dragnet.com.au> wrote:

> Patrick Canion <pspat@opera.iinet.net.au> wrote in article
<5jfgel$kn2$1@opera.iinet.net.au>...
> > _nantko@xs4all.nl (Nantko Schanssema) wrote:
> 
> > I have always accepted that the basis for my argument
> > is on faith alone in what the Bible teaches.
>  
> Fine, you are welcome to your quite remarkably silly collection of fairy
storys.
> Just dont try telling me that I must operate in a particular way because
of some
> crap in that collection of silly fairy storys thanks. Your loopy ideas
are your problem. 
> 

Fine, you are welcome to your own ideas too. However, that is not the issue
here. Your loopy life is your problem.

> > >Not only do you deny any person the right to take his life and death
in his own
> > >hands, you also try to defend this ugly idea with something very selfish.
>  
> > No, from the perspective of euthanasia I am trying to deny the right
> > for another person to assist someone to take another's life.  
> 
> Soorree, we allow those who require or desire assistance with anything from
> starting their car to fixing their car to building a house to educating
their children
> to get assistance with that. No reason what so ever why that isnt just as
valid
> with ending your life with as much dignity and effectiveness as you can
organise. 
> 
> I dont have the slightest interest in what you fundys think. You shouldnt be 
> able to ram your quite remarkably silly 'christian' views down others
throats. 
> 

If you don't care what the "fundys" think you can quit writing stupid
narrow brained remarks like that. stay with the issue of euthansia-not
trying to condem what someone believes.

What euthanasia does do is take away someone life. There are reasons why it
should be considered and reasons why it should not. However, it is a
completely different ball game than "fixing someone's car" and to use that
as an analogy is simply ridiculous and down right ignorant. 

> > I have not argued at all about suicide - something which I believe is
tragic, wrong, 
> 
> Corse its not. There are plenty of situations where suicide is perfectly
appropriate. 
> 

I am beginning to think so too....maybe you should consider? 

> > but also impossible to solve with a legislative response.
>  
> Well, you did manage to get one thing right. 
> 
> > Whilst it would appear that you view my logic as preposterous, 
> 
> He/she aint alone. 
> 
> > my desire to see as many of you as possible spend eternity in 
> > Paradise, where there is only peace, not pain; is this so selfish?
>  
> Quite remarkably silly actually. Are you seriously suggesting that every other
> group of fundys should be able to have their stupid belief system enshrined in
> law so that we all get to end up in their 'paradise' whether we like it
or not too ?
> 
> Barking mad. 
> 

Dont worry, law is taking all religious aspects out one by one and the
whether you get anywhere after life would have to be up to you anyway-not
the law.

> I dont even WANT to end up in your paradise if its got people like you in 
> it thanks. Nothing remotely resembling paradise for me. It would be hell 
> in fact.  And if I did think that my actions here would make a difference 
> on that stuff, I would deliberately do what ensured I wouldnt get there. 
> 

Question: it would be hell to be in a pardise with a person who is against
euthanasia or it would be hell to be in a paradise with someone else who
wants you to be there?

> > > Perhaps for xian trying to get more souls into your so-called
> > >heaven is a Good Thing, for a non-xian this boils down to trying to
> > >get more people into your shop. This may be good for you, but is not
> > >necessarrilly good for others, notably your clients. Even if things
> > >work the silly way you describe, I prefer to take my chances and leave
> > >this world the way I prefer.
>  
> > Fair enough - but why the need to involve someone else? 
> 
> For precisely the same reason we do with everything else Pat. Some of 
> us arent very good at some things, and you dont get much practice doing 
> suicide. It may well make a hell of a lot of sense to get some assistance to 
> ensure that its done properly and you dont end up a vegy or worse instead. 
> 

This is a damn grey area that we all can yell at each other about, but it
comes down to a life and death situation that is different with every
scenario. Euthanasia cannot be legal accross the board nor can it be
completely illegal either. Someone in a "vegy" state, meaning they are
living by electricity alone and have no hope of recovery, I do believe need
to be killed, because they are already dead. Nature should take its course.
We can keep the body alive but if the mind and soul are gone there is no
point. However, we tend to let Technology play the part of GOD. We try show
off the power we have of keeping a dead person alive and killing a person
who is alive. If there is a cure for a disease and you go to the hospital,
they should heal you not kill you. If you want to commit suicide-do it at
your own house and on your own time. It is not in the job description, or
it should not be, for a doctor to kill you when he has the means to heal
you. If there is no cure, I am sorry, but let nature do its thing. We all
face it  at some point, some more painfully than others, but you cannot
make it someone else's responsibility or task to kill you.

> > Let me make a few disclaimers:
> > 1.  I make no money from arguing against euthanasia.
> > 2. My salvation is assured by the blood of Christ; 
> 
> Usual completely meaningless stuff so beloved of fundys. 
> 
> > it is not dependant upon my own efforts, and therefore 
> > I do not need converts to earn 'salvation points'.
> 
> Your silly belief systems are your problem. Dont try 
> ramming them down others throats via legislation. 
> 

No one is ramming anything down anyone throat. 

> > 3. The responsibilty for building the church is Jesus', not mine.  I
> > will gain no extra power or influence on Earth because of my stance.
>  
> > So, if by faith you accept Christianity (or maybe even if you don't),
please 
> > believe that I am coming from this from purely altruistic motives.
>  
> Soorree, doesnt give you the right to ram your quite 
> remarkably silly views down others throats using legislation. 
> 

What is all this about "raming" and "throats"?

> > >>Not to mention the (IMO) inevitable moral consequences 
> > >>on society of becoming de-sensitised to accelerated death.
>  
> We managed to survive that stuff in time of war fine. We can with
assisted suicide too. 

We went to war and killed each other not because we had a right to but
because we had to protect ourselves. Remember? There is a difference.
People died but it wasn't by choice......

> 
> > >Well, well, that's an exciting idea! As if societies give a shit about
accelerated 
> > >death. You tell the same thing to soldiers and hangmen, don't you?
>  
> > Well, maybe societies don't care, but when has that been excuse?  In
the past 
> > many a society hasn't cared about slavery - it doesn't change the absolute 
> > stance on the morality of the issue.  But I care - so I'll do something
about it.
>  
> By ramming your quite remarkably silly views down others throats via
legislation.
> No thanks, a rigorous separation between church and state is the only way
to go. 
> 

No, by spreading his/her ideas. If you are so damn narrow minded and don't
want to listen to others ideas and points, then maybe you should spend your
time somewhere else. 

> And if you damned fundys want to start stoning each other to death 
> again over adultery, soorree, you cant, we wont allow that anymore. 
> 
> > Of course, in the end as useful as legislation is, 
> 
> Thats the way we do things now, whether you like it or not. 
> 
> > the Old Testament shows us that no amount of 
> > lawmaking can make a person do the right thing.  
> 
> Thats crap too. It often does when the law imposes stuff the person doesnt
> care about too much, and there is a very high risk of getting caught etc. 
> 

What about illegal guns in school? That is against the law, and they don't
do the right thing because it is against the law and there is a very high
risk of getting caught.

> Your 'old testament' is a complete dud. Hardly surprising given 
> its just a quite remarkably silly collection of fairy storys.
> 

You are a dud. The 'old testament' is a great book whether or not you are a
christian or a jew or whatever. I havn't read all of it but i know it IS a
collection of stories, a collection of stories that make you think, which,
I might add, you need to do before writing this crap. If this book has so
many religions based on it and so many people talking about it for 2
thousand years, perhaps there is something that is not so "remarkably
silly" in it. 

However, I do want to add that I do not know how this topic has changed for
discussing euthanasia to insulting each others religious beliefs.

> > This has already been demonstrated in the NT - now they're proposing 
> > something along the lines of "ok, well we can't legalise euthanasia, so 
> > let's keep it illegal but we'll change the penalty to a $50 fine".  
>  
> Yep, looks like they might well work out how to 
> make a obscene gesture at you damned fundys. 
> 
> > Disgusting.
>  
> So kill yourself. 
> 
> > Patrick Canion
> > Pastor, Manning Assembly of God, Western Australia
> 
> Keep your silly fundy ideas for those who need a crutch for their minds.

At least some people do have ideas they put in their minds.

Darcy
College Student
Sick-of-close-minded-people.