🚀 go-pugleaf

David Moss <adm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au> wrote in article <adm.859965492@ccadfa>...
> EShipp@tennet.com (Eleanor Shipp) writes:
> >In article <adm.859880724@ccadfa>, adm@ccadfa.cc.adfa.oz.au (David Moss) wrote:
> > >EShipp@tennet.com (Eleanor Shipp) writes:
> > >
> > >>What do you mean we?.. My experience with cancer sufferers is that the pain 
> > >>control is very limited and ultimately unsuccessful, leaving the patient in 
> > >>equal agony or some sort of morphia induced coma.
> > >
> > >Did you see the 7:30 Report the night before the Andrews Bill vote ?
> > >The old dude with terminal cancer interviewed seemed to tell a radically
> > >different story Eleanor. Jan, who works in the field, also seems to
> > >tell a different story.
 
Says nothing useful about those who have experienced that pain 
result with terminal cancer etc David. And where do you get off 
forcing your opinion down others throats on what a particular 
patient can choose to do about ending their own lives anyway ?

> >No I speak from personal experience. Having watched someone die from
> >cancer and seen the effects of so called pain relief, there is little
> >the medical profession can do other than the above. Go to a
> >cancer/aids hospice and sit with the terminally ill for a while. See
> >the impotence of the medicos as they step up the morphine until the
> >patient doesn't even know their own children.
> 
> Must have been very upsetting Eleanor, and explains your position.

Also explains why a number want to be able to get some assistance
to end their lives instead of having the likes of you ram your opinion
on how the end of their lives should be down their throats David. 
They dont give a damn what YOU want to do with yours. 

> As for the effects you mention, don't you think it possible 
> that the effects of the disease rather than the effects of 
> the drug may cause the symptoms you describe ? 

Nope, you dont normally get that result when dying of cancer without the morphine. 

> I have seen similar symptoms in dying people who 
> were not suffering pain or recieving morphine.
 
And its quite routine to work out what the effects of very high levels of 
morphine are Dave, and we have understood that for a century or more now. 

> >Terrific..... and when Nature is doing nothing but increasing 
> > the pain... what then?. Your little illness is nothing compared 
> > with the agony endured by the terminally ill.
 
> Unless you somehow managed to inhabit my body for the 
> duration, you have some cheek telling me about pain level. 

She can be pretty confident that you have never experienced a terminal 
illness tho. You waved around pain as a result of surgery as if it proved 
a damned thing David. It doesnt, terminal illnesses are different. 

> Fortunately its finished now, 

Pity its different with a terminal illness Dave. 

> and I was right about the analgesic effects of pethedine.
 
Pity that its not necessarily suitable for terminal illnesses with pain Dave. 

> >So a few hours on pethadine and you know it all? try months as the pain gets 
> >worse and as your body starts to develop a tolerance. Feel your mind turn to 
> >slush as the Morphine levels begin to reach fatal levels, but it is only the 
> >pain that is keeping you alive.
 
> The situation I described was only my most _recent_ experience.
> I do know what it is like to live in hospital for months,
> and I most certainly do know what it is like to recieve pain relief by
> the clock rather than as needed. (Morphine on that occasion)
 
Pity thats not necessarily anything like some terminal illness and pain Dave. 

You have no basis what so ever for proclaiming on the totality of all those
who die of terminal illness, and we have FAR more viable ways of working
out the reality with those than someone like your's personal experience. 

> I am sorry your friend or relative suffered pain before death, 

Pity that THEY should get the opportunity to choose if THEY want to
suffer that pain Dave. YOUR opinion on that matter is utterly irrelevant. 

> but having recovered from a number of very painful hospitalisations 
> myself.  I choose to campaign for more effective palliative care 

Pity that wasnt a TERMINAL ILLNESS Dave. Some people suffering THOSE
may well choose to end their lives INSTEAD of using 'palliative care' and
thats THEIR choice. Currently there aint a damned thing you can do to
stop them making that choice when they can do it unassisted and you
shouldnt be able to ram your opinions on what they can do down the 
throats of those who cant do it unaided either. Thats what the vast 
majority of Australians think, so your opinion on that is your problem. 

> rather than throw up my hands and offer euthanasia instead.
 
You dont get to choose, the person dying does , or should.