🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 16:50:00 GMT, ob110ob@att.net (Obwon) wrote:

>On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 18:23:31 -0600, Uncle Samuel
><stars@bars> wrote:
>
>>On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 19:41:29 GMT, ob110ob@att.net (Obwon) wrote:
>>
>>>On Fri, 24 Oct 2003 07:06:17 +0100,
>>>grub@internet.charitydays.co.uk wrote:
>>>
>>>>Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld's Five Months
>>>>__________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>        "I can't tell you if the use of force in Iraq today will last five days, 
>>>>          five weeks or five months,  but it won't last any longer than that"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>__________________________________________________________________
>>>>
>>>
>>>  He was warned about the possibility of having a quagmire
>>>on his hands and he pooh poohed it.  
>>
>>It ain't over yet.
>  That's what I said and that is exactly the problem!

You decade-lacking young punk - how long do you think WW2 took?

Ever hear of the Marshall Plan?

Idiot - crack a book kiddo.

>>>He was warned that the
>>>attack would be a recruiting bonanza for the terrorists, now
>>>he has that on his hands as well, only now he sees it
>>>clearly.  
>>
>>Certainly makes it easier to ID and cap 'em.
> 
>  Hardly, 

Perfectly.

>the terrorists don't wear uniforms emblazoned with
>identifying insignia!  

Er..so???

>Why did you bother to suggest that is
>the case?  Nothing better to say?  Careful, that would make
>you a troll!

Are you as young and dumb as you sound?

Ever hear of intel?

Moron.

>>
>>>  Bush seemed to say we could go it alone, without allies!
>>>Obviously he was dead wrong!  
>>
>>No - obviously YOU are dead stupid.
>>
>>We went in with allies - duh!
>>
>>http://www.adn.com/24hour/front/story/813799p-5772206c.html
>>The 30 countries listed by the State Department as members with the
>>United States of a "Coalition for the Immediate Disarmament of Iraq":
>>- Afghanistan, Albania, Australia, Azerbaijan, Colombia, Czech
>>Republic, Denmark, El Salvador, Eritrea, Estonia, Ethiopia, Georgia,
>>Hungary, Iceland, Italy, Japan (March 18, 1:25 p.m. AST), South Korea,
>>Latvia, Lithuania, Macedonia, Netherlands, Nicaragua, Philippines,
>>Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Spain, Turkey, United Kingdom, Uzbekistan.
>
>
>  Yeah, some list of "Allies", and we're paying their way!

Moron, you just got caught with yer pants down and this is yer best
rejoinder, go put yer head in the fridge junior, idjit!


>Please, even the U.K. is seriously questioning their Prime
>Ministers reasonings for joining the war!  Of course, it's
>very easy to fool someone who wishes to be fooled.

The leftist idiots you venerate have been noisy - la de da.

>>>But now that the deed has been
>>>done, the allies he could have counted on, the ones who
>>>tried to prevent this mess and reaped only his "freedom
>>>fries" scorn, are the very ones he's courting to have them
>>>help him carry the load.  
>>
>>Bush never coined the term "freedom fries" not had anything to do with
>>them, you LIAR!
>
>  You deny,

No ASSHOLE - YOU LIED!

FUCK YOU!

>thereby, the fact that Bush's supporters in the
>case for war, did?

That was not what you said - red herring escape hatch - LIAR!

>You say "LIAR", can you show us exactly
>where this lie you claim is made?

You POS, you have decimated yourself!

>>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_fries
>>On March 11, 2003, Representatives Robert W. Ney and Walter Jones
>>declared that all references to "french fries" and "French toast" on
>>the menus of the restaurants and snack bars run by the House of
>>Representatives would be removed. House cafeterias were ordered to
>>re-name french fries as "freedom fries". This action was carried out
>>without a congressional vote, under the authority of Congressman Ney's
>>position as Chairman of the Committee on House Administration, which
>>oversees restaurant operations in the house. 
>>
>>According to a statement released by Ney, this move was a symbolic
>>effort to express displeasure with France's "continued refusal to
>>stand with their U.S. allies" (see Iraq disarmament crisis). The
>>statement further read: "This action today is a small, but symbolic,
>>effort to show the strong displeasure many on Capitol Hill have with
>>our so-called ally, France." 
>
>  And now that 


BREAK!

And now that your lies have been revealed you turn the worm like any
good leftist TOOL does.

You are SHIT BUD, got it?

SHIT!

>no evidence can be shown of the "imminent
>attack", or the connection between Saddam/Iraq with 9-11,

WRONG!

Read it and weep future fuselage boy...

http://www.intelmessages.org/Messages/National_Security/wwwboard/messages/811.html
His friends call him Abu Amin, �the father of honesty�. At 43, he is
one of Iraq�s most highly decorated intelligence officers: a special
forces veteran who organised killings behind Iranian lines during the
first Gulf war, who then went on to a senior post in the unit known as
�M8� - the department for �special operations�, such as sabotage,
terrorism and murder. This is the man, Colonel Muhammed Khalil Ibrahim
al-Ani, whom Mohamed Atta flew halfway across the world to meet in
Prague last April, five months before piloting his hijacked aircraft
into the World Trade Centre. 

Evidence is mounting that this meeting was not an isolated event. The
Observer has learnt that Atta�s talks with al-Ani were only one of
several apparent links between Iraq, the 11 September hijackers and
Osama bin Laden�s al-Qaeda network. Senior US intelligence sources say
the CIA has �credible information� that in the spring of this year, at
least two other members of the hijacking team also met known Iraqi
intelligence agents outside the United States. They are believed to be
Atta�s closest associates and co-leaders, Marwan al-Shehri and Ziad
Jarrah, the other two members of the �German cell � who lived with
Atta in Hamburg in the late 1990s. 

http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iraq/salman_pak.htm
Former Iraqi military officers have described a highly secret
terrorist training facility at Salman Pak, where both Iraqis and
non-Iraqi Arabs receive training on hijacking planes and trains,
planting explosives in cities, sabotage, and assassinations. 

The Salman Pak biological warfare facility was located on a peninsula
caused by a bend in the Tigris river, approximately five kilometers
(km) from the arch located in the town of Salman Pak. The facility
area comprised more than 20 square km, and might have been known as a
farmers (or agricultural) experimentation center. The peninsula was
fenced off and patrolled by a large guard force. Immediately inside
and to the east of the fence line were two opulent villas: the larger
built for Iraqi president Saddam Hussein and the other for his
half-brother, Barazan al-Tikriti. A main paved road ran through the
center of the Salman Pak facility/peninsula. [GulfLINK] 

Plans were made in the mid-1980's to develop the Salman Pak site into
a secure biological warfare research facility. Dr Rihab Taha, head of
a small biological weapons research team, continued to work with her
team at al-Muthanna until 1987 when it moved to Salman Pak, which was
under the control of the Directorate of General Intelligence. 

Located at the facility are several buildings. The probable main
research building at the site is a modern building, composed of twenty
four rooms, housing a major BW research facility. Using current
technology the research area alone had sufficient floor space to
accommodate several continuous-flow or batch fermenters that could
produce daily sufficient anthrax bacteria to lethally assault hundreds
of square kilometers. Adjacent to the research building is a storage
area which contains four munitions type storage bunkers with lightning
arrestors. Two of these bunkers have facilities for storage of
temperature sensitive biological material. Approximately a mile down
the road from the research area is a complex US intelligence believed
to be an engineering area. One building in this complex was thought to
contain a fermentation pilot plant capable of scale up production of
BW agents. A construction project comprising several buildings was
begun in early 1989 adjacent to the engineering area, and was near
completion in 1990. This new complex was assessed as a pharmaceutical
production plant. As such, this facility would have an extensive
capability for biological agent production. [GulfLINK] ...

Iraq told UN inspectors that Salman Pak was an anti-terror training
camp for Iraqi special forces. However, two defectors from Iraqi
intelligence stated that they had worked for several years at the
secret Iraqi government camp, which had trained Islamic terrorists in
rotations of five or six months since 1995. Training activities
including simulated hijackings carried out in an airplane fuselage
[said to be a Boeing 707] at the camp. The camp is divided into
distinct sections. On one side of the camp young, Iraqis who were
members of Fedayeen Saddam are trained in espionage, assassination
techniques and sabotage. The Islamic militants trained on the other
side of the camp, in an area separated by a small lake, trees and
barbed wire. The militants reportedly spent time training, usually in
groups of five or six, around the fuselage of the airplane. There were
rarely more than 40 or 50 Islamic radicals in the camp at one time. 


>there is no Constitutionally justifiable reason for the war
>to have gone ahead!  Those are the only two reasons, legally
>available, to justify this war and square it with the War
>Powers Act!  

You are an IDIOT.

>  So, it turns out that France happens to have been right!

The 40 billion $ WHORE led Chirac Total/ Elf /Fina buyoff???

Are you SICK???


>There was no legal justification for this war, not by
>International law and not by our own Constitution!
>
>  So, as it turns out, someone jumped the gun on vilifying
>our allies for their lack of support for a war that did not
>need to be fought!

Our what?

The ones who were bought off, you mean...

40 bil$ - France

12 bil $- Russia 

8 bil $ - China

6 bil $- Germany

Got it punk?


>>Congressmen Ney and Jones, however, were not the first to re-name
>>french fries as freedom fries. A number of private restaurants across
>>the country started the renaming movement. Neal Rowland, owner of a
>>privately owned fast-food restaurant Cubbie's in Beaufort, North
>>Carolina, decided to sell his fried potato strips under the name
>>"freedom fries." Rowland claimed that his intent was not to slight the
>>French people, but to be patriotic and support President George W.
>>Bush. Many of Rowland's customers were among the local military
>>troops. 
>
>  Yes, and many of those people mistakenly believed that
>Saddam/Iraq had something to do with 9-11! 

damn kid, you couldn't stay on topic if yer worthless life depended on
it, you are a SQUIRMER!

>Something Bush
>always to great pains to associate together in his speeches,

PROOF PLEASE!!!!


>but which he later denied he meant doing to mislead the
>people into thinking he knew of any connection.  Go figure!

GO PROVE BOY!!!


>  In effect he's taken to attempting to say that he only
>kept saying things like "to prevent another 9-11" as a cause
>for war with Iraq, but then saying that he didn't know that
>such statements would likely lead people to believe that he
>meant that Iraq had something to do with 9-11, but was only
>saying things like that to "emphasize" his case for war!

PROOF PLEASE  - IN HIS WORDS!!!


>  Okay, for that to be true, Bush cannot read any news
>papers, listen to no radio or t.v. news and certainly not
>listen to anyone who stood in opposition to the case for
>war!  Some President huh?  

Yer some LIAR, that is clear.

>Obviously you don't seem to
>realize that The War Powers Act requires the President to
>take consultations with congress!  Not merely advise them of
>his actions, but actually hear what they have to say about
>what he intends.  So, in the strictest sense of
>Constitutional law (and congress is debating the issues) he
>violated the war powers act and the Constitution besides.

Are you that stupid - Congress AUTHORIZED this action.

God kid - grow a brain!

>  Of course, I can easily imagine that you, taking the
>position you have, aren't in the least concerned that
>Constitutional Laws may have been violated.  If so, then
>according to your posture, there need be no Constitution at
>all.

Wake up boy, read up.

>>>  He has to be extremely careful now about whom he accepts
>>>help from, unless I miss my guess, much of the world would
>>>not mind him leaving office, and soon.  Some, I expect, are
>>>already greasing the rails for his exit.  
>>
>>Typical, we already know the French, Germans, Russians and Chinese
>>were bought off by Soddem, and now they don'ttlike the facts being out
>>- screw 'em all!
>
>  So, you are saying there was no question with the evidence
>presented to justify the war?

So you are misrepresenting my statements yet again...big FUCKING
SURPRISE!

>  Where, then, are the wmd's
>and/or the connections between Iraq and 9-11?

See above you worthless punk!

>  Even the
>President knew that the terrorist connections with 9-11 did
>not exist!  His staff had to "goose" what intelligence they
>found, remove all caveats from that intelligence, and even
>then they had to twist it and puff it up to make it even
>seem like there was a case for the war.

Lies and bullshit in layers, you are a leftist TOOL.

>  Those are facts the President has admitted or is about to
>be forced to admit soon.
>
>>http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/itsall.htm

TUESDAY, March 11, 2003, 6:34 a.m.
It's All About Oil. For the French
Some interesting facts on who benefits from keeping Saddam Hussein in
power compiled by the Heritage Foundation
Check out the link:
http://www.heritage.org/Research/MiddleEast/wm217.cfm

France
� According to the CIA World Factbook, France controls over 22.5
percent of Iraq�s imports.[1] French total trade with Iraq under the
oil-for-food program is the third largest, totaling $3.1 billion since
1996, according to the United Nations.[2] In 2001 France became Iraq�s
largest European trading partner. 
� Roughly 60 French companies do an estimated $1.5 billion in trade
with Baghdad annually under the U.N. oil-for-food program.[3] 
� France�s largest oil company, Total Fina Elf, has negotiated a deal
to develop the Majnoon field in western Iraq. The Majnoon field
purportedly contains up to 30 billion barrels of oil.[4] 
� Total Fina Elf also negotiated a deal for future oil exploration in
Iraq�s Nahr Umar field. Both the Majnoon and Nahr Umar fields are
estimated to contain as much as 25 percent of the country�s
reserves.[5] 
� France�s Alcatel company, a major telecom firm, is negotiating a $76
million contract to rehabilitate Iraq�s telephone system.[6] 
� From 1981 to 2001, according to the Stockholm International Peace
Research Institute (SIPRI), France was responsible for over 13 percent
of Iraq�s arms imports.[7] 

Germany
� Direct trade between Germany and Iraq amounts to about $350 million
annually, and another $1 billion is reportedly sold through third
parties.[8] 
� It has recently been reported that Saddam Hussein has ordered Iraqi
domestic businesses to show preference to German companies as a reward
for Germany�s �firm positive stand in rejecting the launching of a
military attack against Iraq.� It was also reported that over 101
German companies were present at the Baghdad Annual exposition.[9] 
� During the 35th Annual Baghdad International Fair in November 2002,
a German company signed a contract for $80 million for 5,000 cars and
spare parts.[10] 
� In 2002, DaimlerChrysler was awarded over $13 million in contracts
for German trucks and spare parts.[11] 
� German officials are investigating a German corporation accused of
illegally channeling weapons to Iraq via Jordan. The equipment in
question is used for boring the barrels of large cannons and is
allegedly intended for Saddam Hussein�s Al Fao Supercannon
project.[12] 

Russia
� According to the CIA World Factbook, Russia controls roughly 5.8
percent of Iraq�s annual imports.[13] Under the U.N. oil-for-food
program, Russia�s total trade with Iraq was somewhere between $530
million and $1 billion for the six months ending in December of
2001.[14] 
� According to the Russian Ambassador to Iraq, Vladimir Titorenko, new
contracts worth another $200 million under the U.N. oil-for-food
program are to be signed over the next three months.[15] 
� Soviet-era debt of $7 billion through $8 billion was generated by
arms sales to Iraq during the 1980�1988 Iran�Iraq war. 
� Russia�s LUKoil negotiated a $4 billion, 23-year contract in 1997 to
rehabilitate the 15 billion-barrel West Qurna field in southern Iraq.
Work on the oil field was expected to commence upon cancellation of
U.N. sanctions on Iraq. The deal is currently on hold.[16] 
� In October 2001, Salvneft, a Russian�Belarus company, negotiated a
$52 million service contract to drill at the Tuba field in Southern
Iraq.[17] 
� In April 2001, Russia�s Zaruezhneft company received a service
contract to drill in the Saddam, Kirkuk, and Bai Hassan fields to
rehabilitate the fields and reduce water incursion. 
� A future $40 billion Iraqi�Russian economic agreement, reportedly
signed in 2002, would allow for extensive oil exploration
opportunities throughout western Iraq.[18] The proposal calls for 67
new projects, over a 10-year time frame, to explore and further
develop fields in southern Iraq and the Western Desert, including the
Suba, Luhais, West Qurna, and Rumaila projects. Additional projects
added to the deal include second-phase construction of a pipeline
running from southern to northern Iraq, and extensive drilling and gas
projects. Work on these projects would commence upon cancellation of
sanctions.[19] 
� Russia�s Gazprom company over the past few years has signed
contracts worth $18 million to repair gas stations in Iraq.[20] 
The former Soviet Union was the premier supplier of Iraqi arms. From
1981 to 2001, Russia supplied Iraq with 50 percent of its arms.[21]


>>
>>>His "strength" has
>>>turned out to be merely "pigheadedness", as such he's being
>>>seen as a danger to the world. 
>>
>>That "danger" seems to have convinced Iran to open itself to nuke
>>inspections now.
>
>  No!  

YES!!!

>Level heads did that, 

In IRAN?

Are you cooked kid?

>not Bush, he didn't even bother
>to enter into negotiations!  Boy, you really need to learn
>to think better.

Boy you really need to learn what an object lesson is boy.

Some day you WILL get one, trust me junior.

>>>Just ask our own Congress,
>>>which seems to be awakening, the truth of the matter, once
>>>concealed by the "infotainment news industry", is begining
>>>to leak out.  
>>
>>The leftist mass media has been spinning this from the get go - grow a
>>brain.
>>
>>http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/15/104210.shtml
>>Now that President Bush has finally called the big media's bluff on
>>its bad-news-only Iraq war coverage, mainstream reporters are
>>squealing like stuck pigs.
>
>  Right...  

RIGHT.

>And now, you might explain, why Rumsfeld himself
>is squealing like a stuck pig for saying the same things the
>media has been saying.

Is he?

>>CBS's John Roberts sounded particularly overwrought the other night,
>>complaining that Bush's decision to circumvent the networks and tell
>>the Iraq story to local TV affiliates amounted to a declaration of
>>"war."
>>
>>>Spin is begining to fail, people are peircing
>>>the "veil" with their minds and slowly but surely learning
>>>the truth.  We didn't need to do this war, there was no
>>>threat of imminent attack, as BushCo has admitted, there
>>>were no wmd's, as BushCo is slowly being dragged to
>>>admitting, 
>>
>>Bullshit, they're in the Bekaa Valley now.
>>
>>>nor were there any connections with terrorist, as
>>>BushCo tried to make it appear.
>>
>>You are an IDIOT!
>>
>  You are a troll, 

You aree a leftist POS and the bestr reason for birth control I've
seen in months!

>nothing you've posted actually addresses
>any real facts!  

LIAR.

Damned lying piece of leftist SCUM!

>Or did you somehow miss the Presidents own
>admissions to the contrary of what you've posted?

Did you have some trouble with the facts?

Read 'em and weep boy - FUCK YOU TO HELL!

>  Oh well, I guess that makes you a troll!
 
And you a leftist TRAITOR - ROT IN HELL KID.