🚀 go-pugleaf

Chris F.A. Johnson (bq933@torfree.net) wrote:
: On Sun, 18 Jan 1998 03:32:21 GMT, Carlos Coimbra (aa713@torfree.net) wrote:
: : Chris F.A. Johnson (bq933@torfree.net) wrote:

: : But Nabil here is focusing on "bandwidth", not "expenses".

If you read (and hopefully understand) my post, you note that I 
acknowledge the problem of perceived extra bandwidth usage which my 
happen at first. I stated that this can be prevented by making the TFN 
menues in HTML format (as actually Chris is doing right now in posting 
the board minutes through Lynx). Now if the TFN menues are in HTML (with 
graphics) then any dial-up user will NOT use any 'external' connection - 
and no bandwidth. The problem would exist only from two sources:

- Those dial-up users who frequently visit sites on the net and would 
like to do that graphically. As I stated it is a pain in the ... for too 
many reasons; basically the slow modems (14.4), the internet congestion, 
etc. SO IMHO it would be a self-limiting phenomenon.

- The TFN users who telnet to the TFN. I agree that it is important to 
keep some of them - those who were/are residing in Toronto and want to 
'keep in touch'. However, there are many 'international' members that are 
in reality only free-loaders. They do not contribute any thing to the 
TFN. Wew can not rely on some - not documented - personal experiences - 
e.g. someone donated $250 - in the absence of reliable statistics or 
data. You cannot generalize from 'personal knowledge'. David Jones, 
though living in Ottawa is one of the major donors to TFN. But David 
Jones is one of the TFN founders and is not 'the rule'. 

My suggestion then is that we should set up a 'compulsory' fee for people 
with a mailing address outside Toronto. This fee should take in 
consideration that they are using one of the valuable resources - though 
we do not currently pay for it, but certainly has a potential for making 
trouble for the TFN - i.e. bandwidth. The telephone lines are truely a 
limited resource, but except early in nights no body has any problem 
connecting to the TFN. On the other hand, Rogers is asking TFN for an 
explanation for the excess use of the combined bandwidth from TFN and 
not.torfree.net, both of which at the end use the Rogers donated 
community T1 connection. So bandwidth (which is totally different than 
hard disk storage ;-) is the more pressing problem.

It is true that adopting I-comm may cause an initial surge in bandwidth 
usage, however this is self-limiting and depends actually on our success 
in keeping the users satisfied WITHIN the TFN.

You concentrated on the perceived drawbacks and did not comment on the 
perceived benefits from:

- Sponsors who would like a garphic forum for their ads. Thus we shoudl 
rightfully expect an increase in sponsorship.

- the user community.

You also did not discuss the value - more often downgraded by those 
short-sighted old school TFNers - of graphics.


: But his proposal would increase the bandwidth used, as well as increase
: the load on ALL our resources. Not one of his suggestions would decrease
: our bandwidth use.

See above. The balance of pros/cons should be carefully considered. If we 
are - though I do not agree with it - are catering to the users to pay 
the bills, then may be we should listen to what the users want. They have 
declared they want PPP/GUI. We will provide something that is not PPP, 
but can be considered as GUI. It is a perfect compromise.

: If we are going to move towards a graphical interface, we will need more
: bandwidth, and that will cost money.

Not necessarily. Actually I had frequently suggested that we provide a 
local PPP (kisok). This will cost us no bandwidth.

: : However, the board could certainly consider not to renew or accept as future 
: : members those who live outside Toronto.

: Why? The saving to us would be minimal, if not a loss. 

Depends how you evaluate their use of wavelength through telnetting. 
Rogers is getting restless. Of course not paying even our telephone bills 
may cause them to take severe actions. Again, I suggest that those not 
living in the Toronto area be made to pay a membership fee or their 
accounts would be cancelled.

: I know of at least two members who live outside Toronto who have donated
: $250.00 each within the last month. 

One is David Jones. Who is the other ;-)

: : P.S. I have the distinct feeling that, whatever Nabil suggests, some 
: : people are always ready to naysay it... Maybe if he'd suggest the 
: : opposite of what he really means, he'd get his private member's bill to 
: : get a hearing.

: When Nabil says something that makes sense, we listen. Unfortunately, that
: rarely happens.

What rarely happens? you listening ;-)

: Please note that I did take it seriously enough to respond seriously.
: If anyone can provide any information on I-Comm that refutes my
: statements, I'll listen.

Why you need soemone else to tell you how I-comm is. Go get it. You can 
try it as a 'terminal' with the TFN. If you want to try it as a graphic 
browser than I shall lend you my Finnish account for a trial period (I 
have to do that as the Finnish Freenet actually stopped accepting 
applications from people not living in Finland. They will also cancel 
outside accounts, same as I am suggesting the TFN do).

The basic information I have provided. Some lies were provided by others, 
e.g. you have to pay for the software. No. If you use version 1.15 
(available from the Finnish Freenet), it is free. If you go for version 
1.2 or later, it is shareware, that is to say it will bug you to register 
but you actually can still use it. It is full-featured version.
-- 
---------------------------O00Oo-   -o000O----------------------------
Nabil M. El-Khodari              \ / "Men use thought to justify their 
IP, TFN                           V  injustices, and speech to conceal 
                                  |  their thoughts"        -Voltaire-