🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <E75xn9.ItB.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
> There are 30,000+ accounts
> on TFN which have no positive 
> identification. They were used
> in the last Board elections
> to cast fraudulant votes.

You can't prove it.

-- 

Richard Sexton      |  "Where were you when Bambi's mother was shot?"
richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

The Bob Allisat Diary:

9:00 am Flame Alternic if they don't give me an office

11:00 go get a KinderSurprise. Hope there's an airplane inside

1:00 trash TFCN

3:00 trash Torfree

5:00 have a big bowl of good good whole wheat shreddies

7:00 tell Gard what to do next so we can kick microsofts butt

7:05 plan campaign for office

7:30 libel my opponent for office

9:00 trash uunet for pulling the plug on PCS

11:00 trash the green party for not being radical enought

11:30 Hot Chocolate, and beddie bye, knowing I've made the world a better place.



-- 

Richard Sexton      |  "Where were you when Bambi's mother was shot?"
richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

Bob Allisat wrote:
> 
>  There are more than 40,000 accounts registered on the
>  Toronto Freenet 35,000 of  which have not even minimal
>  proof of the identity of their owner on file.
> 
>  It has come to my attention that many if not *hundreds*
>  of these accounts are fraudulant and may be even controlled
>  by current Board Members or their *very* close buddies.
> 
>  These bogus accounts were used for E-Mail and Usenet smear
>  campaigns during the past elections. And these accounts were
>  used to rig the results according to wishes of certain
>  individuals.
> 
>  A clear course of action is called for:
> 
>  1. Election results are VOID and new elections called
>     immediately to be monitored by an independant third
>     party.
> 
>  2. All accounts formed before positive ID's were required
>     are deleted unless members provide identification.
> 
>  3. A complete investigation of submitted, signed members
>     agreements is done to search for anomalies.
> 
>  4. Call the police if we find evidence of wrong doing.
>     This is not fun and games - it's fraud and it's illegal.
> 
>  And, no, I am not interested in running again for the TFN Board.
>  The mad municipal mega-elections are just around the corner and
>  I will be far too busy very soon.
> 
>                            Bob Allisat
> 
>  PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2      (416) 588-0670
> --


You are absolutelly right - BIG BROTHER!

Now where do you come off for even suggesting such rediculous 
requirements for a service providor that was intended to be FREE to 
users.  No-one is forcing you to remain a member, and the remaining 
membership will appreciate not hearing from you again, but in any case 
get off your high horse.  The remaining 39,999 of us on the TORONTO 
FREENET, like what we get for what we pay.

 There are 30,000+ accounts
 on TFN which have no positive 
 identification. They were used
 in the last Board elections
 to cast fraudulant votes.
                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670
-- 

Me, Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
> There are 30,000+ accounts
> on TFN which have no positive 
> identification. They were used
> in the last Board elections
> to cast fraudulant votes.

Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> replied:
: You can't prove it.

 The mere possibility justifies
 activity towards ensuring that
 it may never occur in the future.
 You, Mr. Sexton, have really not
 too much to add to anything. You've
 degraded into just another Bob
 stalker who never discusses the
 issues at hand. Enjoy.
                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670
-- 

In article <E775JI.ACy.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
>Me, Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
>> There are 30,000+ accounts
>> on TFN which have no positive 
>> identification. They were used
>> in the last Board elections
>> to cast fraudulant votes.
>
>Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> replied:
>: You can't prove it.
>
> The mere possibility justifies
> activity towards ensuring that
> it may never occur in the future.
> You, Mr. Sexton, have really not
> too much to add to anything. You've
> degraded into just another Bob
> stalker who never discusses the
> issues at hand. Enjoy.

In other words, you cant prove it.

First it was "fraud", not you're worried
about "the possability".

Go get a hobby bob.

Besdies lying on usenet, that is.

-- 

Richard Sexton      |  "Where were you when Bambi's mother was shot?"
richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

Bob Allisat wrote:
>  2. All accounts formed before positive ID's were required
>     are deleted unless members provide identification.
> 
>  3. A complete investigation of submitted, signed members
>     agreements is done to search for anomalies.

To which cu697@freenet.toronto.on.ca replied:
: You are absolutelly right - BIG BROTHER!

: Now where do you come off for even suggesting such rediculous 
: requirements for a service providor that was intended to be FREE to 
: users.  No-one is forcing you to remain a member, and the remaining 
: membership will appreciate not hearing from you again, but in any case 
: get off your high horse.  The remaining 39,999 of us on the TORONTO 
: FREENET, like what we get for what we pay.

Well, Bob has a point. If multiple, bogus accounts exist, that can give 
these users more than one vote in the AGM election. This is not 
democracy. I would say that it wouldn't be too much to ask for those who 
have not before submitted ID to the TFN office to at least be able to do 
so before being allowed to vote at the next election.

Gard

-- 

Bob Allisat (ab330@torfree.net) wrote:
:  There are more than 40,000 accounts registered on the
:  Toronto Freenet 35,000 of  which have not even minimal
:  proof of the identity of their owner on file. 
:  It has come to my attention that many if not *hundreds*
:  of these accounts are fraudulant and may be even controlled
:  by current Board Members or their *very* close buddies. 
:  [...]
:  2. All accounts formed before positive ID's were required
:     are deleted unless members provide identification.
:  3. A complete investigation of submitted, signed members
:     agreements is done to search for anomalies.

That was an interesting conspiracy theory, and I have another one.

One renowned net.kook, bitter about not winning election to the TFN
Board, mumbles totally unsupported allegations about election fraud
perpetrated through multiple accounts. This same defender of cyber-
rights and freedoms demands verifying thousands of memberships,
deleting accounts retroactively unless positive ID is brought forward.

This Allisat character is the invisible power behind the current
Board, except for 1 member (myself). A review of the election results
shows most of Allisat's friends on his slate won, except Allisat
himself. Whereas I have never met the other 14 Board members until
after the election. 

TFCN was started by Allisat. TFCN members has taken over the TFN 
Board. Having served its purpose, TFCN has been ordered destroyed.
Allisat will now use TFN to take over the Mega City and then the
world.
-- 
|                                                          Bill Chow, B.Com.|
|Board member, Toronto Freenet                      Toronto, Ontario, CANADA|
|Web: www.netforward.com/theoffice/?chow                 Email: chow@usa.net|
|___________________________________________________________________________|

On Sun, 16 Mar 1997 06:08:37 GMT, ab330@torfree.net (Bob Allisat)
wrote:

> There are more than 40,000 accounts registered on the
> Toronto Freenet 35,000 of  which have not even minimal
> proof of the identity of their owner on file. 
>
> It has come to my attention 

<<libel snipped>>

Boob, you've been told that you don't HAVE to listen to those voices
you hear all the time....

cu697@freenet.toronto.on.ca wrote:
: Now where do you come off for even suggesting such rediculous 
: requirements for a service providor that was intended to be FREE to 
: users.  No-one is forcing you to remain a member, and the remaining 
: membership will appreciate not hearing from you again, but in any case 
: get off your high horse.  The remaining 39,999 of us on the TORONTO 
: FREENET, like what we get for what we pay.

 And if say 500 or 1000 of these accounts are
 phoney? And f these accounts were used in the
 Annual General Meetings and elections to cast
 fake votes? That's fraud old chum. A lot of if's.
 But the more resistance there is to the idea
 the more those fake accoutns seem to be as
 widespread and pervasive as I feared.

                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670

-- 

Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> wrote:
>In other words, you cant prove it.
>
>First it was "fraud", not you're worried
>about "the possability".
>
>Go get a hobby bob.
>
>Besdies lying on usenet, that is.

 Sasha, Dmytri's employee and
 friend was hosting a commercial
 web site on the TFN's non-profit
 not.torfree.net site. There are
 reports of other for-profit
 contents as well.

 There are 30,000+ accounts for
 which we have no identification
 at all. There are so many phoney
 accounts on TFN that It'll shock
 the average, honest TFN contributor.
 And those accounts were used to
 jig the election.

 It will all come out in the end.
 Your disinformation and confusion
 tactics just fail to address the
 issues sufficiently. There are 
 only so many times you can say
 I'm crazy before people start
 believing *YOU* are. Or worse.

                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670
-- 

 <http://www.not.torfree.net/~sasha/transforum>

 BTW that's the URL for that commercial site
 Alexander "Sasha" Braun was hosting on TFN
 What else is on this server? What else is going
 down on TFN? This whole business stinks and you
 Richard Sexton and Dmytri Kleiner are smelling
 the worse for your defense of all this monkey
 business. Let's get to the truth shall we?

                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670
-- 

In article <E793Mn.5L6.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
>
> <http://www.not.torfree.net/~sasha/transforum>
>
> BTW that's the URL for that commercial site
> Alexander "Sasha" Braun was hosting on TFN
> What else is on this server? What else is going
> down on TFN? This whole business stinks and you
> Richard Sexton and Dmytri Kleiner are smelling
> the worse for your defense of all this monkey
> business. Let's get to the truth shall we?

Uh, bob, what the freenet does has nothing to do with me.

Please refrain, in your campaign to shut down avery free
service in Toronto, from associating my name with them.


-- 
Richard Sexton
richard@alter.nic            We are all the Alter.NIC
richard@vrx.net               http://www.alternic.net

Bob Allisat wrote:
> 
> Me, Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
> > There are 30,000+ accounts
> > on TFN which have no positive
> > identification. They were used
> > in the last Board elections
> > to cast fraudulant votes.
> 
> Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> replied:
> : You can't prove it.
> 
>  The mere possibility justifies
>  activity towards ensuring that
>  it may never occur in the future.

You said nothing about the accounts *may*
have been used. You stated, clearly, that
these 30,000 accounts *were* used to
cast fraudulant votes. Are you saying you
have no knowledge that these account
were used in such a manner and you're
merely making crap up to make some
kind of point? I believe the definition
of libel is knowingly spreading false
informating. If you know you don't
know, you're libelling the reputations
of the TFN board members. If you know
these accounts were in fact used,
then put up your evidence. Alternatively,
shut yer pie hole.

>  too much to add to anything. You've
>  degraded into just another Bob
>  stalker who never discusses the
>  issues at hand. Enjoy.

My goodness, a boB Stalker! Are you saying
you don't enjoy having a legion of users
who'll, at the drop of a hat, challenge
your various crack-pot assertions and
denial of service attacks?

-- 
Visit the Conspiracy Arc-Hive!
http://www.netizen.org/Arc-Hive

karl mamer (KAMAMER!Cut!Me!No!Uce@INTERLOG.COM) wrote:
: You said nothing about the accounts *may*
: have been used. You stated, clearly, that
: these 30,000 accounts *were* used to
: cast fraudulant votes. Are you saying you
: have no knowledge that these account
: were used in such a manner and you're
: merely making crap up to make some
: kind of point? I believe the definition
: of libel is knowingly spreading false
: informating. If you know you don't
: know, you're libelling the reputations
: of the TFN board members. If you know
: these accounts were in fact used,
: then put up your evidence. Alternatively,
: shut yer pie hole.

 With the dirty tricks that
 have been going on under the
 surface it is absolutely clear
 that fraudulant votes were cast.
 The election results were as
 bizare as the software created
 by Mr. Laslo Orto's bizzare
 election software. The fix
 was in from the start. Let's
 see this problem set straight.

                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670

-- 

In article <E79zxK.5BM.0.queen@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
>
> I seek only to ensure that
> these free and non-profit 
> organizations are run with
> integrity and honesty.

Great. When you get some perhaps you start
down that noble goal.

> What we have witnessed is
> what happens when good causes
> get used for personal interests.
> Let us seek reforms and get
> involved to carry through
> these reforms.

I smell a political campaign coming up, you're
sounding like a politician.

> I was there for the first
> TFN meeting. I was there
> for the first TFCN meeting.
> I will endure and these
> organizations will endure
> with integrity and honesty.
> Otherwise they will rightfuly
> perish. Such is life.


Translation: "I'll get these pricks to do what
I want or die trying".

Having more than one person in agreement with
your spitefull, demented agende would probably
be a good start.

-- 

Richard Sexton      |    "Critics: legless men who teach running"
richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

 <http://not.torfree.net/~sasha/transforum>

I, Bob Allisat, wrote:
> BTW that's the URL for that commercial site
> Alexander "Sasha" Braun was hosting on TFN
> What else is on this server? What else is going
> down on TFN? This whole business stinks and you
> Richard Sexton and Dmytri Kleiner are smelling
> the worse for your defense of all this monkey
> business. Let's get to the truth shall we?

Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> wrote:
:Uh, bob, what the freenet does has nothing to do with me.
:
:Please refrain, in your campaign to shut down avery free
:service in Toronto, from associating my name with them.

 I seek only to ensure that
 these free and non-profit 
 organizations are run with
 integrity and honesty. They
 are *not* private enterprises
 run for the benifit of their
 alleged owners. TFN and TFCN
 are PUBLIC services to be run
 with the good of the greatest
 number of citizens in mind.

 What we have witnessed is
 what happens when good causes
 get used for personal interests.
 Let us seek reforms and get
 involved to carry through
 these reforms.

 BTW Mr. Sexton... you may
 disassociate yourself from
 any of these organizations
 by simply stopping to write
 about/on/around their issues.
 It is you who have chosen
 this path. You may choose
 to end it. I will persist
 thank you very much.

 I was there for the first
 TFN meeting. I was there
 for the first TFCN meeting.
 I will endure and these
 organizations will endure
 with integrity and honesty.
 Otherwise they will rightfuly
 perish. Such is life.
                           Bob Allisat

 PO Box 191 Station E Toronto Canada M6H 4E2       (416) 588-0670
-- 

In article <E793F5.589.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
>Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> wrote:
>>In other words, you cant prove it.
>>
>>First it was "fraud", not you're worried
>>about "the possability".
>>
>>Go get a hobby bob.
>>
>>Besdies lying on usenet, that is.
>
> Sasha, Dmytri's employee and
> friend was hosting a commercial
> web site on the TFN's non-profit
> not.torfree.net site. There are
> reports of other for-profit
> contents as well.

It didn't appear to be accessible when I tried it. 

Can you explain this?

> There are 30,000+ accounts for
> which we have no identification
> at all. There are so many phoney
> accounts on TFN that It'll shock
> the average, honest TFN contributor.
> And those accounts were used to
> jig the election.

WERE used ? You have proof, right ?

> It will all come out in the end.
> Your disinformation and confusion
> tactics just fail to address the
> issues sufficiently. There are 
> only so many times you can say
> I'm crazy before people start
> believing *YOU* are. Or worse.

Uh-huh. Nobody cares, bob. Get a life.

-- 

Richard Sexton      |   "Fortune sides with him who dares"  -    Virgil
richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

Richard Sexton wrote:

> > There are 30,000+ accounts for
> > which we have no identification
> > at all. There are so many phoney
> > accounts on TFN that It'll shock
> > the average, honest TFN contributor.
> > And those accounts were used to
> > jig the election.
> 
> WERE used ? You have proof, right ?

Yes. He got the proof from the same place
he got the proof that the guy he was running
against in the civic elections was a 
notorious homosexual. Run boB! Run boB!

-- 
Visit the Conspiracy Arc-Hive!
http://www.netizen.org/Arc-Hive

In article <E79zGy.3n4.0.queen@torfree.net>,
Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
|
| With the dirty tricks that
| have been going on under the
| surface it is absolutely clear
| that fraudulant votes were cast.
| The election results were as
| bizare as the software created
| by Mr. Laslo Orto's bizzare
| election software. The fix
| was in from the start. Let's
| see this problem set straight.



	I seem to recall that Gard Abrahamson got the most
	votes - are you saying that was undeserved?  Please
	think carefully before answering this.


-- 
  ,u,	 Bruce Becker		Toronto, Ontario	1 416 699 1868
a /i/	 Internet: bdb@gts.org	Uucp: ...!gts!bdb
 `\o\-e	 Matter cannot be created or destroyed, nor can it
 _< /_	 	be returned without a receipt	- physicists everywhere

-- 
Nabil M. El-Khdari          | Community networking is not an aim in itslef,
TFN Member                  | but a means to an end.. The end being community
TFN Information Provider    | revitalization, empowerment and development.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

In article <E7DoBx.Bqz.0.queen@torfree.net>,
Nabil Mohamed El-Khodari <ad613@torfree.net> wrote, um, nothing:
>-- 
>Nabil M. El-Khdari          | Community networking is not an aim in itslef,
>TFN Member                  | but a means to an end.. The end being community
>TFN Information Provider    | revitalization, empowerment and development.
>xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


For once I agree with you, Nabil.


-- 

Richard Sexton      |  http://mbz.org      1970 280SE
richard@mbz.org     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719

Richard are you in bed with the guys from TFCN.

Richard Sexton (richard@interlog.com) wrote:
: In article <E793F5.589.0.bloor@torfree.net>,
: Bob Allisat <ab330@torfree.net> wrote:
: >Richard Sexton <richard@vrx.net> wrote:
: >>In other words, you cant prove it.
: >>
: >>First it was "fraud", not you're worried
: >>about "the possability".
: >>
: >>Go get a hobby bob.
: >>
: >>Besdies lying on usenet, that is.
: >
: > Sasha, Dmytri's employee and
: > friend was hosting a commercial
: > web site on the TFN's non-profit
: > not.torfree.net site. There are
: > reports of other for-profit
: > contents as well.

: It didn't appear to be accessible when I tried it. 

: Can you explain this?

: > There are 30,000+ accounts for
: > which we have no identification
: > at all. There are so many phoney
: > accounts on TFN that It'll shock
: > the average, honest TFN contributor.
: > And those accounts were used to
: > jig the election.

: WERE used ? You have proof, right ?

: > It will all come out in the end.
: > Your disinformation and confusion
: > tactics just fail to address the
: > issues sufficiently. There are 
: > only so many times you can say
: > I'm crazy before people start
: > believing *YOU* are. Or worse.

: Uh-huh. Nobody cares, bob. Get a life.

: -- 

: Richard Sexton      |   "Fortune sides with him who dares"  -    Virgil
: richard@vrx.net     |  Bannockburn, Ontario, Canada / +1 (613) 473-1719
-- 
****Graham-John Bullers*****www.Freenet.Edmonton.ab.ca/~real/index.html***** 
Lord grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change.The courage
to change the things I can.And the wisdom to hide the bodies of the people
I had to kill because they pissed me off.*********alt.2600.moderated*********