🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <D.Nash-1411941453460001@bubba.ots.utexas.edu> D.Nash@utexas.edu (Donald L. Nash) writes:

|In article <39tq3s$gni@larry.rice.edu>, patrick@rice.edu (Patrick L
|Humphrey) wrote:
|
|>Sorry, but I'm footing my share of the bill.  Road taxes are supposed to be
|>derived from stuff like registration fees, license fees and renewals, and ]
|>the taxes that make up around 35% of the retail cost of a gallon of gas at
|>the pump, but in reality they're taken from a few more diverse sources --
|>like from the sales tax.  That puts a *lot* of us on an equal footing.
|
|Someone who owns two cars pays registration fees on both of them, and they
|have two vehicles which they can use on public streets.  Someone who owns
|a car and a bike pays registration fees on only one of those vehicles, but
|they are still allowed to use both of them on public streets.  Doesn't
|sound like an equal footing to me.  Yes, there are other taxes that go to
|road construction and repair, but all other things being equal, a person
|with a car and a bike pays less tax for two vehicles than someone with two
|cars.

Sounds fair to me -- after all, a bike isn't going to cause anywhere near as
much wear and tear on the roadways as a car.

|>So you think passing a few more laws will solve the problem?  
|
|I think changing the current laws would be sufficient to level the playing
|field.  What's the problem with making bikers live up to the same
|responsibilities as drivers if they're going to have the same rights?

No problem at all, as far as I can see.  It looks like where we differ is in
just what those responsibilities should be.

|>...and I wonder, who gets to determine what's residential and what isn't?
|>The distinction isn't anywhere near as clear-cut as you might think,
|>particularly in urban areas like Houston -- and if taken literally, you'd
|>wind up with streets where every other block would have different laws
|>applicable. 
|
|It was an off-the-cuff suggestion.  I never expected that it was
|fault-free as it stood and I even pointed out one of its faults.  But that
|doesn't mean it is without merit.  I'd like to see the idea discussed at
|length (but not here).  It very well might not work, but I'd like to hear
|some diverse and well-informed opinions before this determination is made.

I wouldn't mind seeing some more input as well.  If it worked at all, it'd
have a better chance of doing so in cities where zoning is well established.
All I can say, from personal experience, is that it'd be a waste of time in an
urban area like Houston, where the clear-cut distinctions between residential
and non-residential are few and far between.

|>Then, you have to figure out where you're going to get all the people
|>needed for enforcement, and who's going to foot the bill -- do you see
|>what you're getting into?
|
|The cops are already enforcing the traffic laws, and bikers are already
|responsible for obeying all the those laws.  Why does making bikers
|responsible for two or three more laws (vehicle registration, operator
|licensing, and maybe vehicle inspection) suddenly cause a massive increase
|in the required number of law enforcement personnel, especially when these
|three laws are typically only enforced when a traffic law is violated?  

Why should the state be extending its power yet farther over people who
haven't needed to be protected from themselves so far?  I'd rather try and
educate, before resorting to force.

|>Oh, so *that's* your motivation...you don't want to be _inconvenienced_. If 
|>my lawful presence on a street inconveniences you in your land barge, I'm 
|>sorry, but those are the breaks.  You'd best learn to share the road, 
|>because under the law, you don't have a whole lot of other options.  I 
|>think the Critical Mass folks up there could find a more constructive way 
|>of getting their point across -- disrupting large amounts of traffic is 
|>*not* the way to do it -- but your attitude is equally ignorant.  We've 
|>both got rights to the road in Texas, lump it or leave it...so it'd
|>behoove us to learn to share it, and do it right.
|
|Get off your high-horse, buddy.  I know the law.  I know that bikers have
|the same rights as drivers.  I don't have to like it, but I do have to
|live with it.  However, I do have the right to voice my dislikes.  That
|doesn't make me ignorant, it just means I have an opinion.  My opinion is
|that I don't like being inconvenienced by bikers (boy is that a shock,
|someone who doesn't like to be inconvenienced), and I wish there was some
|way they could use the roads without getting in the way of cars. 

That's as may be -- but, as you've noted, you're not going to get your wish.
In that case, we might as well make the best of it and live with each other.
I've been on both sides of this issue for as long as I've had a driver's
license in Texas -- meaning, for 23 years now -- so I've got an interest in
promoting understanding between those of us on four wheels and those of us on
two.  

|It is also my opinion that if bikers are going to share the same roads as
|motorists, then they should live up to the same set of responsibilities,
|which they currently don't do.  If you don't like my opinion, that's fine,
|you don't have to.  But save your preaching and your stereotyping
|insults.  I don't drive a "land barge", I drive a mid-size sedan.  Your
|implication seems to be that I think I own the road just because I don't
|like being caught behind a biker struggling to climb a long hill during
|rush hour on a narrow, crowded street.  I could probably come up with some
|unsavory terms for bicycles and bicyclists, but I've refrained from doing
|so because namecalling doesn't accomplish anything except to reveal your
|own prejudices.

Guilty as charged, I'm afraid, for which I apologize -- but given some of the
stuff I have to put up with during my daily commute to and from Rice (which
means, in a normal week, I pedal 80-85 miles), you may understand the origins
of some of my opinions, not that it justifies them.  It's apparently a
different environment for pedaling down here in a city of four million than it
is in Austin, with its 700,000 or so.

--Patrick L. "but at least it's *flat* down here" Humphrey