🚀 go-pugleaf

In <NEWTNews.17081.783821933.moss@moss.onramp.net> moss@onramp.net MaryAnn Moss writes:

>
>> From: tharding@metronet.com (Ted Harding)
>
>> : Guns can never be completely eliminated.  But many societies have 
>> : significantly reduced their criminal use by minimizing availability.
>> :   
>> 
>> Sure, just like Switzerland where virtually every household has handguns 
>> AND assualt rifles in them.  This is due to their law that ALL citizens 
>> there have to be a part of the militia and is allowed to be armed.  YET, 
>> they have one of the lowest violent crime rates in the world.  
>
>        "vitually every household"?
>         More like 27%, as compared to the US rate of 48%.

Sorry, but that's simply not a credible statement.  The Swiss government
provides MILITARY EQUIPMENT (i.e., *real* assault rifles as opposed to
the soi dissant 'assault weapon' (nee. ugly gun) banned in the United
States to approximately 17% of the total population of the country.  I'm
afraid I find it quite unlikely that that 17% of the population,
including, as it does, practically all adult males in the country, only
takes part in 27% of the households.

Perhaps you are referring to the *privately* owned weapons, which are
over and above those military weapons which are in practically *every*
household? 

>
>         And then there is the matter of pistols NOT being freely 
>      available, but allowed only after a police permit is issued, 
>      not to mention the matter of those assault weapons being
>      issued only to people that have government-sponsored and
>      licensed training has been completed, which means military
>      veterans only, for the most part.
>    
>           Think the US gun death rate would drop if only veterans
>      could own weapons here? Or rather, who thinks it WOULDN'T?

I don't think it would.  At least, it wouldn't if you use the definition
you are using for the Swiss, where all males are required to take some
minimal training.  That's no different than simply issuing them to
everyone. 

>
>         And as for crime, the Swiss have more gun crime that Spain, 
>      Norway, Germany and Britain. All of which have fewer guns in 
>      private hands, and fewer gun deaths as well. More gun control,
>      fewer gun crimes. Just a coincidence?  

I'd like to see the numbers you are using for this. The Swiss had so
little gun crime until recently that they didn't even bother counting it
separately.  

Let's take a look at something besides 'gun crime', since that really
doesn't tell you anything.  For example, if you compare the murder rates
(which, after all, ought to be what you care about -- the goal of
reducing 'gun crime' while not impacting violent crime overall is merely
a silly goal; not to mention it being exactly what pro-gun people will
tell you happens) for Spain, Norway, Germany, Britain, and Switzerland
you find that Norway and Britain are slightly lower than Switzerland,
Spain is slightly higher, and Germany is *much* higher.  When I say
'slightly', I'm talking about the difference of a rate of 2.0 / 100,000
and 2.25 / 100,000.

However, on ranking murder rates throughout the world, one finds
something else quite interesting.  The murder rate in Sweden (known for
being law-abiding, peaceful, etc.) is only about 10% lower than that
horrible, bloody, violent place called the United States.

Wonder how that happened?



--
"Insisting on perfect safety is for people who don't have the balls to live
 in the real world."   -- Mary Shafer, NASA Ames Dryden
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merlin@annwfn.com -- I don't speak for others and they don't speak for me.