🚀 go-pugleaf

damron@austin.ibm.com () writes:
>> >1)      the murder of defenseless civilians by serbian AND croat
>> >        militias in yugoslavia
>> >2)      the violent (clubbings and whippings) put down of peaceful
>> >        rallies in china (many years prior to Tiananmin Square)
>> >3)      the kidnappings and murders of civilians by police in
>> >        chile, argentina, spain, morocco, and romania
>> >4)      the beating by police of ethnic minorities in bulgaria,
>> >        romania, hungary, argentina, and austria
>
>The arguement I am hearing is that if the victims mentioned in the above 
>examples themselves had firearms, then they could succesfully prevent the
>violence against them?  

    No, it's not quite that simple. Examples of violence by a government
    against its citizenry abound. Many, if not most of these are fueled by
    a total lack of respect for the people who make up the nation. The
    masses are either pawns or obstacles. The same factors that lead to a
    lack of respect or concern for the populace also lead to a desire to
    disarm them. It's one of those combinations that feeds on itself. 
    
    The Second Amendment was written to specifically address this. All you 
    have to do is read what its writers said about their rationale.

>If the students in Tiananmin Square had guns, then
>perhaps China would be a democracy today?  If the ethnic minorities choose
>to shoot back a the police, then the police will can either retreat and 
>forget about them or they can attack with greater force in increased resolve.
>Which seems more likely.  There are lots of examples of people who did chose
>to arm themselves and fight the unjust oppression and ended up dead.  They 
>also were able to kill some of the oppressors as well.  Violence begets violence.

    Is all violence therefore wrong? Of course not. The US was only 
    recognized as a sovereign nation as the result of a violent revolution. 

    The most effective way to stop a rape is with a gun, either threatening 
    to use it or actually using it.

    If you want to consider self-defense as violence, then you must admit
    that violence, or the threat thereof, can also stop real violence in
    its tracks.

-- 
    Kevin Langston   
    langston@frontier.lonestar.org