🚀 go-pugleaf

> From: krehn@grumpy.cc.utexas.edu (karl rehn)


> The stats you posted raise the same questions that looking at
> gun ownership and gun control in Switzerland, Israel, England, Japan, etc.
> do.  Could it be that is little correlation between guns and violence
> because the root causes of violence are tied to other
> factors like poverty, alcohol and drug abuse, mental illness, and our
> culture's voracious appetite for violence as entertainment?

       Well, the stats I posted included rich countries (Japan, 
     Germany) poor ones (Ireland, Portugal) alcohol prone ones
     (Sweden, Iceland, Ireland) and even violent ones (Germany,
     Northern Ireland) - and yet the one unifying element is 
     gun control laws that seem to keep down the tide of gun
     violence.

> An important statistic that I used before bears re-stating.
> Dr. Gary Kleck (and other researchers) have tried to determine how
> often a firearm is used for self-defense each year in situations where
> no shots are fired and no one is killed.  His low estimate based on
> several studies is around 650,000 times a year - possibly up to 2.5 million.


      That is the problem with "estimates" - they vary so widely
    widely as to make them quesses at best.
      Side note - Kleck called up 4965 households and asked the 
    anonymous respondents if they had ever had a "defensive gun
    experience" and when 52 said yes, he jumps to the conclusion that
    there must be 2.5 million such uses a year.
      Now you do the same poll, changing the words "defensive gun
    experience" to "UFO abduction" or "Elvis sighting", and then
    publish the results as proof.
      See the problem? Think 52 anonymous responses "proves" that
    Elvis is alive and sacking groceries in Des Moines?  

  Prohibition didn't stop us from drinking - and alcohol is still
> a bigger killer every year than guns if you believe the AMA stats.

     Well, the prohition-era ban on machine guns reduced their use 
   in crime to zero. In fact, the Bush ban on imported assault 
   weapons has resulted in a 45% drop in THEIR use in crime, just
   since 1989. But when the ban is being extended to domestic makes
   as well, the cry goes up that it "just won't work".
     Why not? 

  If we really want to save lives we should focus on changing the
> cultural attitude that violence is "cool" - but also accept that self-defense
> is a basic right and that firearms ownership is not a public health risk
> if it is done by responsible law abiding citizens.  By the way even HCI
> admits that the continued decrease in firearms accidents *is* due to the
> efforts of volunteer instructors and the increased emphasis on training.
> 
> Karl
> rehn@arlut.utexas.edu
>   
> 
     Unfortunately, all too often it is the "law-abiding citizen"
   that flips out and murders scores of people. All of the recent
   gun massacres - San Fransisco, San Ysidro, Long Island Railway,
   etc were done by people with no criminal record. And that doesn't
   include all of the post office shootings and every one of our
   presidential assassins. 
 
   EW