🚀 go-pugleaf

On Mon, 20 Mar 2000 17:41:08 +0000, support <support@webworlds.net>
wrote:

>Dances with Poultry wrote:
>> 
>> On Tue, 14 Mar 2000 12:51:04 +0000, support <support@webworlds.net>
>> wrote:
>> 
>> >You'd need to get to them quickly if your home was broken into by armed
>> >burglars.
>> 
>> Odd, but in my neighborhood in the country, very little burglary takes
>> place.  No indoor burglary that I've heard of.  It's well known that
>> virtually everyone in the valley owns fire arms.  Thieves don't seem
>> to be too anxious to take a chance like that.
>
>Nice for those who live in countrified valleys.

Living in Ft. Worth wasn't much different in that regard really.

>> Neighbors look after each other. Most are armed, and we all sleep
>> well.  The point is that it's not necessary to "get to them quickly"
>> when the deferent does all that is required.
>
>Deterrents are only effective against those who would be deterred.

True, best to just kill the rest and let god sort em out later.

>> >Do you keep these weapons in a locked cabinet, or could a minor (or
>> >intruder) get at them?
>> 
>> It's none of your business where I keep my fire arms.  Stay out of my
>> bedroom, stay out of my car with your mandatory safety equipment and
>> stay out of my house with your so called safety measures.
>
>No problem, I'd say most people in your valley would be unlikely to get
>a surprise visit from a friendly passing motorcyclist, or anyone else.

Not true.  A few of my neighbors absolutely *HATE* motorcyclists.  We
live on a nice twisty road but we get a bunch of squids that think the
thing to do is get up to 100 on the straights.  It's a neighborhood
and they treat it like Daytona.  I can't blame them.

>I asked because when I last owned a sporting rifle, The cops came round
>to check I had the rifle in a metal cabinet, and the action in a
>seperate room in a locked drawer!

Why did they come 'round?  Seems to me they're sticking their nose
where it doesn't belong.  Did they check to see if you'd ripped the
tags off your mattress too?  That's a federal crime y'know ;0)

>> You've killed my children with your mandatory air bags,
>
>No I didn't!

Well he looked a lot like you.  <looks real squinty eyed and
suspicious like>

>>you've killed my neighbors with your zealous anti-gun mentality
>
>Err, don't think I did that either.

Stop writhing ya weasel!

>>and now you want in to my house?
>
>Not unless I'm invited ;�)

Well okay, you can come...

<Blazing Saddles>

...BUT NO IRISH!

<Blazing Saddles>

>> You're living dangerously.  Criminals aren't as much my
>> enemy as you zealots that feel it's your right to dictate what goes on
>> inside my home.  I run into criminals only rarely, I run into your
>> kind of destructive hypocrisy daily.
>
>See what I mean about increased paranoia?

Cops inviting themselves into your home for a random safety check is
okay with you?
 
>> >Or if you were confronted by an armed assailant on the street.
>> 
>> It's never happened but we'll just play along,
>> 
>> >Do you carry a weapon you could defend yourself with?
>> 
>> No, that would require that I register myself as a gun owner/carrier.
>> 
>> >If so is it in a
>> >holster you can draw from quickly?
>> 
>> I've already stated that I don't carry one.
>
>Thats why I started the sentence with 'if'.

There was a time I did carry two.  It was in defense of a Constitution
I rather appreciate.

>> >How do you pre-empt someone who knows
>> >they are going to pull a gun on you before you do?
>> 
>> Well then I guess I've been disarmed by people like you and am unable
>> to protect myself.  I would think that makes you happy.
>
>Not at all, I just wondered how carrying a gun helps defend yourself
>against someone who draws first. I notice you didn't try to answer that
>one.

Okay, so I'm dead worst case (some might argue that "worst case"
part;)  But I can "What if" too.  What if pigs had wings and nuclear
shit?  "What if" situations don't make for sound arguments IMO.  What
if we all stayed locked inside our homes and never drove anywhere?
We'd all be safe from all kinds of dangerous situations.

>> >Having a lot of guns in a country means a lot of guns will get into the
>> >hands of people who use them for Robbery and murder.
>> 
>> That's a common argument that has been proven false.  But don't let
>> the facts stand in the way of your argument.
>
>Lots more guns in the states per head of population than the UK.
>Lots more gun related crime in the states per head of population than
>the UK.

Then why did crime drop when the right to carry laws were passed in
state after state in the US?  Coz the bad guys weren't the only ones
carrying them.  There are a lot of differences between the US and UK.
I'm convinced it's *those* reasons that are more the issue.  If guns
were the problem then my neighbors would have killed each other off
decades ago.  There are more out here per capita than in the inner
cities I'd wager, and wager heavy.

>> >This increases the
>> >paranoia and stress level of society in general.
>> 
>> I've seen made for TV arrests that ended in fatalities.  That should
>> cause more concern than your argument.
>> 
>> >more paranoia and stress=more random killings by 'crazies'.
>> 
>> Let's see, Florida passed the "Right to carry" law and violent crime
>> dropped dramatically.  The same thing happened in Texas.  These are
>> two states of many in the US.  There are more and the evidence to
>> contradict your hypothesis is overwhelming.
>> 
>> >more guns=more gun crimes.
>> 
>> More fiction
>
>Nope, it's true.

Nope, it's not.  More criminals = more crimes.  Armed citizens (or at
least the potential) = less crime.  It's proven by the statistics
everyone loves to ignore including the press.

>> >I have friends in Scotland who usually don't bother to lock their door
>> >when they go out. They certainly don't bother to lock it when they are
>> >in.
>> >Massacres like Dunblane are a very rare incident in the UK
>> 
>> I can say exactly the same thing about the area in which I live.
>> 
>> >Lots of sporting rifles in Scotland... very few handguns tho'.
>> 
>> Handguns are sporting tools as well.  I've used them as such.
>
>Damned inaccurate way to kill an animal.

Fookin expensive way to poke holes in paper too ;0)

>> >I'm for freedom, but not the freedom of those who deny the right of
>> >peaceful people to live in peace.
>> 
>> Those that would abandon freedom for the sake of peace, deserve
>> neither.
>
>I *Agree* with that, but I was talking about abandoning the American
>obsession with gun ownership, not freedom.

You can't have/keep one without the other.

> Real freedom is being able to
>accept other peoples point of view without feeling threatened, 

Accepting anothers point of view is no problem for me.  It's only when
they insist that I/we change for what *they* consider better that I
feel threatened.  I've been to the UK, I felt no urge to start handing
out weapons and getting on a soap box.  Why can't furners adopt that
same attitude about the States.  Why is it you feel the need to force
your life style on us?

>or
>feeling the need to threaten them with your gun...

Here I've been surrounded by weapons all my life and not once has
anyone threatened me with one.  That's the whole point isn't it.  It's
just an alarmist attitude IMExperience.
--
DwP, Remove BLOOMERS to reply