🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <tse.748728158@foolish> tse@apple.com writes:
>pjk@netcom.com (Phil Koenig) writes:

>[reformatted for easier quoting]
>| The people I have informally interviewed who come from countries
>| which have "socialized" health care dismiss the argument that it
>| doesn't work as a smoke-screen by individuals or groups who either
>| A) have never lived in a similiar system and can't imagine anything
>| other than what they're "used to" 
>
>My grandfather is a Canadian citizen.  He has been suffering from 
>some sort of spinal/back problem for the last eight months.  Not 
>life threatening, I don't think.  But completely debilitatinging.  He 
>can't really walk about or even stand up without assistance anymore.  
>The pain in his back is just too great.
>
>His general practitioner doctor thinks he needs an MRI.  My grandfather
>is on the queue for an MRI scan.  He has been for the last six months.
>His GP has referred him to various specialists, hoping that *someone*
>can put him on a faster queue towards an MRI scan.  No one can.  Facts
>are, he is old, and his back problem isn't life threatening.  Mental 
>anguish and personal well-being be damned.
>
>The solution?  He came to the Bay Area for his MRI.  He has visited 
>specialists, and it looks like his back pain may be relieved with 
>some sort of steroid injection.  He has been seeing a physical 
>therapist, and he seems to be in much better spirits now. 
>
>Oh yeah... He is still on the list for an MRI scan in Vancouver. 


Well, as it so happens, the friend I referred to in another message in 
this thread had an MRI too.  Problem was, it didn't _show_ anything (as 
they often don't).  She found out later that it was given incorrectly.
Trying to get them to re-administer it almost required an act of Congress,
not to mention months and months.  See, the problem is, MRI's are 
EXPENSIVE.  And when you're a "Medi-Cal" (i.e. govt. subsidized, for those
who are not californians) patient, in my experience, you're lucky the doctor
even tells you the procedure EXISTS, much less get the treatment.  Of course,
as it turns out, the MRI was of no use, and she still suffers tremendously.
Problem is, it appears that in this country (or state), if the doctors 
"don't have a clue" (i.e. no diagnosis) about your problem, you _can't even
get disability payments_.  So my friend lingers on the edge of poverty and 
homelessness as a result.


This friend of mine, who in addition to having a chronic (and un-
diagnosable, according to the various doctors) back condition, also has
colon cancer.  She almost flipped after being told, after the shock of
discovering she had cancer on top of all this, that the operating-room
procedure that they wanted to perform to remove the polyps *in and of
itself* had something like a 20% mortality rate.  It wasn't until I got
on some online medical databases and did research, discovering that there
was another alternative (laser surgery) which carried virtually ZERO 
mortality rate, that the doctor "admitted" that laser surgery was, indeed,
an option - with virtually no mortality risk.  As if you hadn't guessed,
laser surgery is more expensive.

Because my friend didn't have insurance any more since she lost her job,
she has been forced to be treated as an outpatient at a very highly 
regarded medical center, when the doctors would have recommended she be
admitted.  She has been forced to seek medical care in outlying counties,
because she has bills owing to the hospital in question.  And this is for
a person with no income, no transportation... indeed, she often finds it
extremely difficult to make it from the bedroom to the kitchen to get  
something to eat.  Oh yes, I LOVE the U.S.'s "safety net".  Har har.


>Or how about my mother.
>
>She belongs to the Kaiser HMO in the Bay Area.  Last year, she had
>some pain in her shoulder when she moves her arm about.  She set up
>an appointment with her "personal" doctor at Kaiser Redwood City.
>No problem, they tell her, we can give you an appointment 3 months
>from now.  Fine, my mom said.
>
>But the pain was persistent.  She tried to move her appointment up,
>but Kaiser cannot accomodate her.  She was so bothered by her shoulder
>that she finally went to see a doctor outside of the Kaiser system. 
>A couple of shots, some pills, and some physical therapy, and her 
>shoulder is now without pain.  Her doctor tells her the condition of
>her shoulder was deteriorating without treatment, and had she waited
>for her Kaiser appointment, treatment would have been much more 
>drastic.  Surgery might have been required, and perhaps there would
>have been some permanent impairment.
>
>I switched my insurance carrier out of the Kaiser system after her
>experience.  That the Clintons are using Kaiser as their model just
>fills my heart with joy, let me tell you.


I agree with you here.  My friend was with Kaiser and we have a collection
of horror-stories.  The bottom line, as I see it, is that they're strictly
profit-motivated.  Their philosophy seems to be, if they can send you off
with a pill, and you think it's actually *doing* something, then they're
happy.  Sure, they've got resources, but they're also the ones that made
it almost impossible to get the MRI that she thought would be helpful.

>| The generally consensus is, it works, and well.  These opinions come 
>| from Canadians, Western Europeans, and Eastern Europeans.  
>
>Gee, you must not have talked to my Grandfather. 

I most *definitely* did not.  What does this prove?



>Gary Tse, tse@apple.com		T'have seen what I have seen, see what I see!	
>(408) 862-5452	




Phil Koenig
pjk@netcom.com