🚀 go-pugleaf

In message <20080703152156.3be21d10@realh.co.uk> Tony Houghton
<h@realh.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:13 -0600
>DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>
>> In message <20080703014617.1ee01c76@realh.co.uk> Tony Houghton
>> <h@realh.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:04:58 -0600
>> >DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>> >
>
>> Now compare that cost against the benefit?  Who would buy a
>> motherboard that happens to include an operating system targeted at
>> users who are capable of grabbing it for free on their own anyway?
>> 
>> My grandmother sure won't care, she can't use Linux anyway.  A few
>> geeks might care, but I don't know of a geek that can't manage to get
>> Linux running on their own if they care to make it a priority.
>> 
>> >The cost of a garbage OS is anything from �10 to �200+
>> >depending on whether you're trying to buy it or get a refund after
>> >having it foisted on you.
>> 
>> I don't buy hardware that bundles an OS I don't want.
>
>But a lot of people do. They may not be capable of building their own
>PC, or so they think, 

Having watched a number of very technical people fail when assembling
their own hardware, I'd suggest that they think correctly.

Random end users can't usually manage to check the system requirements
on the back of the box, they definitely won't have the time or
understanding to research their components.

>but many mainstream magazines are telling them
>to avoid Vista, which is what they'll be forced to have if they buy an
>off-the-shelf PC.

Okay.  So how would bundling a random distribution help?

Remember, anyone that wants Linux can already download it free.

>> >I prefer to download the driver using a system that is net-capable
>> >and either copy it onto the Windows drive/partition if it's Linux on
>> >the same PC, or use a USB key if it isn't.
>> 
>> Good theory, but manufacturers need to be able to sell hardware that
>> works without an existing system to get it working.
>
>Bundling Linux is a way of achieving that.

In what sense?  It might give you something to play with before you
install your primary OS, but unless you happen to plan on sticking with
the distro being distributed (LiveCD or otherwise), the result is the
same, you still need to get your primary OS up and then install whatever
you need to access the latest drivers, then install those.

>> Personally, I can't say I'm even willing to do tech work without an
>> internet connection available anymore except in exceptional
>> circumstances.
>> 
>> I really like how my EVDO card works, when you first insert it, if no
>> driver connects to the EVDO portion of the card it switched to CD mode
>> (emulating a CDROM) with drivers onboard.  Once you install the
>> drivers, the CD disappears and you don't see it again unless you
>> disable/uninstall the EVDO card.
>> 
>> I'd love to see motherboards offer similar, and adding 64MB of flash
>> would probably be cheaper then distributing CDs due to the fact that
>> the flash can be updated trivially whereas CDs cannot be updated once
>> they're pressed.
>
>I've seen a similar idea backfire. My mother's digital camera came with
>a driver which my father dutifully installed for her. The driver was to
>use it in webcam mode, and with it installed the camera failed to appear
>as a storage device to get the photos off!

How is that even remotely related? -- Broken drivers can happen
anywhere, my suggestion was a way of eliminating the need for outdated
physical media to be distributed at all.

>> >> Well actually maybe I wouldn't, since it would cut into my billable
>> >> hours for newb PC builders.   But ya know.
>> >
>> >Funny how so many people that rubbish Linux make a living by charging
>> >for wasted time.
>> 
>> Nobody around here actually uses Linux for anything other then
>> servers, there simply isn't a market.  Even my Linux geek friends at
>> best manage a couple Linux servers in otherwise nearly homogeneous
>> Windows shops.
>> 
>> In all my consulting and local IT contacts, I've yet to hear of any
>> company actually using anything other then Windows on the desktops.
>
>That isn't really because Linux is "garbage", it's all to do with
>Microsoft's monopoly and the availability of certain software. 

And yet, the result is the same.

People still pirate Windows when they can get Linux free.  They still
pirate Office when they can get OpenOffice free.

>My sister
>and her husband aren't geeks, but they dual boot now, using Windows only
>for games and Ubuntu Linux for web, email and basic OpenOffice work.
>They find it's quite usable, whereas no matter how hard we tried with
>various anti-malware programs (admittedly only free ones, but stuff with
>a good reputation like AVG, Avast, Adaware and SpyBot) their Windows
>installation would always end up getting severely 0wned.
>
>> Don't get me wrong, I would really love to see some real competition
>> out there.  A dozen years since I started hearing "Linux is ready for
>> the desktop" and how long with OSX out there, and the combination of
>> the two is still fighting over 10% of the desktop marketplace.
>
>I thought the figure was supposed to be more like 1%. Maybe Vista caused
>the extra 9% ;-). 

Maybe, but Vista's adoption rates in the first year beat out Linux and
OSX combined, so that says a lot.

>Also, you can't get accurate usage figures for Linux
>because hardly anyone buys it, they download it.

There are other stats available then looking at sales stats.  Web stats
and user surveys tell you a lot.

Wandering around any public place looking at all the MacBooks people are
using, go find one that isn't running Windows (Either in bootcamp or
parallels, or something similar) -- About 40% of my friends and family
circles who own a laptop own a Macbook, every single one, bar none, has
Windows.  A little over 50% use Windows as their primary OS, with a
small percentage running Linux, the rest on OSX.

In OSX' defense, there is some malware out there for OSX, both proving
how insecure OSX is, but also showing that it's a big enough target to
be worth attacking -- That's a huge step forward for Apple.