🚀 go-pugleaf

"7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message 
news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>
> They can use a DVD with DSL, Puppy Linux, System Rescue CD,
> GParted, Ubuntu and a few other distros that boot and run from LiveCD.
> The bigger distros should have bare minimum such as Open Office,
> Games like Torcs, Nexuiz etc, education stuff like xmaxima, Rasmol,
> CAD like QCad, K-3D, Gimp for photos, Seamonkey to create
> and maintain websites, GAMBAS2 and gcc for writing software,
> and K3b for burning CDs.
>
> Its all free and downloadable any way.
> http://www.livecdlist.com
> http://www.distrowatch.com
>
> At a cost of 10p, it not only boosts system builders to diagnose PCs
> but also helps all the punters avoid installing boot leg copies
> of proprietory software and reduce piracy.
>
> May be the small companies and system builders should bundle the
> CD themselves. It costs 10p or thereabouts, but bound to generate
> a lot of interest - especially helping students for example
> choose one motherboard over another, and from one vendor from
> another for the freebees that are enclosed.
>

No, because not everyone shares your maniacal obsession with Linux! 

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:29:29 GMT 7
website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com the Worm-Infested Arse Priorities
Testing Inspectorate member wrote in
news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...

> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>
<snip unread>

No.

Clearly a very large percentage of those buying motherboards are either 
system builders or enthusiasts, neither of which would have any interest in 
a linux CD. If they did have any interest then they would have downloaded 
the version of Linux they wanted to run.
If manufacturers do decide to bundle a linux CD with motherboards I wish to 
purchase I'll be asking you to reimburse me for the extra cost.

Now fuckoff back to COLA. 

-- 
Lunch was nice; Gross used tampons in heinous live rat embryos and wolf
liver garnish, dished up in a randomly twitching bowl containing
decrepit squares of endive and chunks of squash in melted cheese, a side
of chocolate and a pint of vaginal discharge.

Micoshaft Asstroturfer Gazwad wrote on behalf of Micoshaft Corporation:

> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:29:29 GMT 7
> website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com the Worm-Infested Arse Priorities
> Testing Inspectorate member wrote in
> news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> 
>> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>>
> <snip unread>
> 
> No.
> 
> Clearly a very large percentage of those buying motherboards are either
> system builders or enthusiasts, neither of which would have any interest
> in a linux CD.


Clearly you were never a system builder or enthusiast, just
a paid shill for micoshaft doing the asstroturfing rounds.

I was both an enthusiast and system builder and the highest
priority is getting the systems to boot up with something
before installing anything.

In the bad old days anything was something.
But now you got DSL LiveCD, Knoppix LiveCD, SystemRescue
LiveCD, GParted and many others that are just superb
at booting a PC. Many motherboards also boot Linux off USB sticks
if the features were available in the BIOS.

http://www.livecdlist.com
http://www.distrowatch.com


> If they did have any interest then they would have
> downloaded the version of Linux they wanted to run.

Strawman argument applied by one huge asstroturfer WINDUMMY without
knowledge of the real world.


> If manufacturers do decide to bundle a linux CD with motherboards I wish
> to purchase I'll be asking you to reimburse me for the extra cost.

10p is in the post.

> Now fuckoff back to COLA.

May be you should enroll in a Motherboard course at your local
training center before opening your asstroturfing mouth.

After all, they can either believe in a spliffing asstroturfer
shilling for Micoshaft Crocporation like you, or believe
in the benefits of a free LiveCD.

In message <dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com> 7
<website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:

>Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?

No.  I'd rather they not waste money on optical media containing crap
I'll never touch.

Bitstring <fktn64ptvbpo5mg668u7h4gh5cpdetemkt@4ax.com>, from the 
wonderful person DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> said
>In message <dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com> 7
><website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>
>>Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>
>No.  I'd rather they not waste money on optical media containing crap
>I'll never touch.

I think you mean 'MORE cr&p', given the amount they already deliver 
(typically nobbled &/or temporary versions, or games you didn't want).

Now if only they could arrange to ship PROPER, CURRENT drivers and BIOS 
for the damn motherboard ....   Grrrr.

-- 
GSV   Three Minds in a Can
12,169 Km walked. 2,402 Km PROWs surveyed. 43.4% complete.

"Gazwad" <nospam.spam.nospam@gmail.com> wrote in message 
news:SGjRPPEfnNX3lhN9NwBkrEl_DpRULyTS@alt.fraternity.poor-inner-sanctum.biz.samoa...
> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:29:29 GMT 7
> website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com the Worm-Infested Arse Priorities
> Testing Inspectorate member wrote in
> news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>
>> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>>
> <snip unread>
> If manufacturers do decide to bundle a linux CD with motherboards I wish 
> to
> purchase I'll be asking you to reimburse me for the extra cost.
<snip>

'Wow' a whole 10p rebate!
P.

"7" <website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote in message 
news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...
> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>
> They can use a DVD with DSL, Puppy Linux, System Rescue CD,
> GParted, Ubuntu and a few other distros that boot and run from LiveCD.
> The bigger distros should have bare minimum such as Open Office,
> Games like Torcs, Nexuiz etc, education stuff like xmaxima, Rasmol,
> CAD like QCad, K-3D, Gimp for photos, Seamonkey to create
> and maintain websites, GAMBAS2 and gcc for writing software,
> and K3b for burning CDs.
>
> Its all free and downloadable any way.
> http://www.livecdlist.com
> http://www.distrowatch.com
>
> At a cost of 10p, it not only boosts system builders to diagnose PCs
> but also helps all the punters avoid installing boot leg copies
> of proprietory software and reduce piracy.
>
> May be the small companies and system builders should bundle the
> CD themselves. It costs 10p or thereabouts, but bound to generate
> a lot of interest - especially helping students for example
> choose one motherboard over another, and from one vendor from
> another for the freebees that are enclosed.
>


Interesting idea.

Given the current climbate however including a Linux CD in the box is 
unlikely to happen given the
a) cost (yes 10p over thousands of motherboards is a lot of cash)
b) the environmental issues given that a significant portion of the disks 
will never be used.

On the otherhand including a bootable/installable Linux distro on the 
currently provided driver disk would add a clear 'value added' advantage to 
a makers spec.
1 It could be tweaked precisely for that motherboard
2 Test utilities could be included to help techs determine hardware faults.

I do note one direction that 'has' been taken by Asus is to embed Linux 
directly on the motherboard.
http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/07/0614246
In fact this link 
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/hardware/0,1000000091,39418766,00.htm claims Asus is 
to embed Linux onto 'all' it's motherboards
Perhaps this will result in 'no' disks being included int the box, just a 
link to the website to download them using the onboard "Splashtop/Express 
Gate" OS.

Also one wonders if the 'instant on' aspect of such embeded OS is the 
'killer app' that will take Linux into the mainstream.
Talk to the average user of a PC whatever the OS and one of the most 
annoying aspects is the time it takes to start up your average PC.

Interesting times.

Paul. 

In message <LQUak.73336$gc5.66169@pd7urf2no> catchme
<someone@somewhere.net> wrote:

>it would appear that doing so would be a violation of the linux 
>distributions released under the gnu agreement that stipulate there 
>should be no charge for such releases.

Neither the GPL nor BSD licenses have any such restriction.  You can
charge whatever you want, however the GPL does require the sourcecode to
be made available if you distribute binaries.

BSD-type licenses have no such limitations.

gzipping the source and tossing it on the CD would take care of it.

In both cases you need to distribute the license, proper attributions,
etc, all of which can be buried in the other legalese.

In message <20080703014617.1ee01c76@realh.co.uk> Tony Houghton
<h@realh.co.uk> wrote:

>On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:04:58 -0600
>DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:
>
>> In message <+ghfq9AZs$aIFAO3@from.is.invalid> GSV Three Minds in a Can
>> <GSV@quik.clara.co.uk> wrote:
>> 
>> >Bitstring <fktn64ptvbpo5mg668u7h4gh5cpdetemkt@4ax.com>, from the 
>> >wonderful person DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> said
>> >>In message <dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com> 7
>> >><website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>>Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>> >>
>> >>No.  I'd rather they not waste money on optical media containing
>> >>crap I'll never touch.
>> >
>> >I think you mean 'MORE cr&p', given the amount they already deliver 
>> >(typically nobbled &/or temporary versions, or games you didn't
>> >want).
>> 
>> Ahh, but most of the temporary version crap is paid for by the
>> manufacturer of the software, not the motherboard.  In other words, I
>> don't pay for it.
>> 
>> I would pay the costs of throwing in some random garbage OS.
>
>No, it's estimated you'd pay about 10p, which is negligible compared to
>the motherboard. 

10p might cover the cost of the CD.  Now add the costs for building the
CD, and supporting the software (including hiring and training support
staff, and their associated office needs)

Now compare that cost against the benefit?  Who would buy a motherboard
that happens to include an operating system targeted at users who are
capable of grabbing it for free on their own anyway?

My grandmother sure won't care, she can't use Linux anyway.  A few geeks
might care, but I don't know of a geek that can't manage to get Linux
running on their own if they care to make it a priority.

>The cost of a garbage OS is anything from �10 to �200+
>depending on whether you're trying to buy it or get a refund after
>having it foisted on you.

I don't buy hardware that bundles an OS I don't want.

>> Personally what I'd like to see would be a single lightweight CD that
>> only contains enough drivers to get the NIC up and running and connect
>> to the net to pull updated drivers, then automate the process of
>> detecting required drivers (at least for the motherboard, since it's
>> components are known quantities), downloading and installing them.
>
>I prefer to download the driver using a system that is net-capable and
>either copy it onto the Windows drive/partition if it's Linux on the
>same PC, or use a USB key if it isn't.

Good theory, but manufacturers need to be able to sell hardware that
works without an existing system to get it working.

Personally, I can't say I'm even willing to do tech work without an
internet connection available anymore except in exceptional
circumstances.

I really like how my EVDO card works, when you first insert it, if no
driver connects to the EVDO portion of the card it switched to CD mode
(emulating a CDROM) with drivers onboard.  Once you install the drivers,
the CD disappears and you don't see it again unless you
disable/uninstall the EVDO card.

I'd love to see motherboards offer similar, and adding 64MB of flash
would probably be cheaper then distributing CDs due to the fact that the
flash can be updated trivially whereas CDs cannot be updated once
they're pressed.

>> Well actually maybe I wouldn't, since it would cut into my billable
>> hours for newb PC builders.   But ya know.
>
>Funny how so many people that rubbish Linux make a living by charging
>for wasted time.

Nobody around here actually uses Linux for anything other then servers,
there simply isn't a market.  Even my Linux geek friends at best manage
a couple Linux servers in otherwise nearly homogeneous Windows shops.

In all my consulting and local IT contacts, I've yet to hear of any
company actually using anything other then Windows on the desktops.

Don't get me wrong, I would really love to see some real competition out
there.  A dozen years since I started hearing "Linux is ready for the
desktop" and how long with OSX out there, and the combination of the two
is still fighting over 10% of the desktop marketplace.

"DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message 
news:jkho64lhqj6upln1i81gilqerkcarnssef@4ax.com...
>
>>it would appear that doing so would be a violation of the linux
>>distributions released under the gnu agreement that stipulate there
>>should be no charge for such releases.
>
> Neither the GPL nor BSD licenses have any such restriction.  You can
> charge whatever you want, however the GPL does require the sourcecode to
> be made available if you distribute binaries.
>
> BSD-type licenses have no such limitations.
>
> gzipping the source and tossing it on the CD would take care of it.
>
> In both cases you need to distribute the license, proper attributions,
> etc, all of which can be buried in the other legalese.


What about devices with embedded Linux?  They are obviously made for profit, 
and they do not even seem to have the source code available.

ss. 

VanguardLH wrote:
> "7" in <news:6gSak.19722$E41.4349@text.news.virginmedia.com> wrote:
>
>> Micoshaft Asstroturfer Gazwad wrote on behalf of Micoshaft
>> Corporation:
>>
>>> On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:29:29 GMT 7
>>> website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com the Worm-Infested Arse
>>> Priorities Testing Inspectorate member wrote in
>>> news:dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com...
>>>
>>>> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
>>>>
>>> <snip unread>
>>>
>>> No.
>>>
>>> Clearly a very large percentage of those buying motherboards are
>>> either system builders or enthusiasts, neither of which would have
>>> any interest in a linux CD.
>>
>> Clearly you were never a system builder or enthusiast, just
>> a paid shill for micoshaft doing the asstroturfing rounds.
>>
>> I was both an enthusiast and system builder and the highest
>> priority is getting the systems to boot up with something
>> before installing anything.

Like the BIOS you mean?

>>
>> In the bad old days anything was something.
>> But now you got DSL LiveCD, Knoppix LiveCD, SystemRescue
>> LiveCD, GParted and many others that are just superb
>> at booting a PC. Many motherboards also boot Linux off USB sticks
>> if the features were available in the BIOS.
>>
>>> If they did have any interest then they would have
>>> downloaded the version of Linux they wanted to run.
>>
>> Strawman argument applied by one huge asstroturfer WINDUMMY without
>> knowledge of the real world.
>>

And while you insist in speaking in the language of a five year old, do you 
think anyone will take you seriously?
-- 
SteveH 

7 wrote:

> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
> 
Well, we (@w0rk) purchase laptops and desktops without preloaded OS. Indeed
they come with freedos preinstalled just to verify they boot up.
Of course, freedos does not support the hdasound, network and graphics
controller. 
They could just as well install a knoppix or systemrescue cd to allow a more
detailed evaluation with all the peripherals available for testing.
Before we finally clean-install XP, that is.

7 wrote:

> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
> 
Btw. ... retailers these days put all possible crap on the preinstalled
systems ... like trialware, vulnerable update- or annoyanceware,
unsoliceted browser toolbars, a truckload of sh*t in autostarts.
Now, to get their paid-for advertising done, they could as well put that on
a mini-linux distribution preinstalled. At least with the benefits
- the linux allows full testing of the hardware for free, even if the pc/lap
is sold without a (windows) OS
- one or the other user takes a closer look at linux
- and everyone may just trash it (and the junk) and install whatever they
want

"Synapse Syndrome" <synapse@NOSPAMsyndrome.me.uk> wrote in message 
news:15OdnT7QcvXAG_HVnZ2dnUVZ8qbinZ2d@bt.com...
> "DevilsPGD" <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote in message 
> news:jkho64lhqj6upln1i81gilqerkcarnssef@4ax.com...
>>
>>>it would appear that doing so would be a violation of the linux
>>>distributions released under the gnu agreement that stipulate there
>>>should be no charge for such releases.
>>
>> Neither the GPL nor BSD licenses have any such restriction.  You can
>> charge whatever you want, however the GPL does require the sourcecode to
>> be made available if you distribute binaries.
>>
>> BSD-type licenses have no such limitations.
>>
>> gzipping the source and tossing it on the CD would take care of it.
>>
>> In both cases you need to distribute the license, proper attributions,
>> etc, all of which can be buried in the other legalese.
>
>
> What about devices with embedded Linux?  They are obviously made for 
> profit, and they do not even seem to have the source code available.
>
> ss.
>



Linksys got bad publicity over their wireless routers for that but I believe 
the source has since been published (and hacked)

Best
Paul. 

In article <dOPak.19614$E41.10901@text.news.virginmedia.com>, 
website_has_email@www.enemygadgets.com says...
> Should Motherboard makers bundle Linux CD with every shipment?
> 
Waste of time and money, more confusion and trouble for the customer.

-- 
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a 
  drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
spam999free@rrohio.com (remove 999 for proper email address)

On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 21:28:13 -0600
DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:

> In message <20080703014617.1ee01c76@realh.co.uk> Tony Houghton
> <h@realh.co.uk> wrote:
> 
> >On Wed, 02 Jul 2008 18:04:58 -0600
> >DevilsPGD <spam_narf_spam@crazyhat.net> wrote:
> >
> >> I would pay the costs of throwing in some random garbage OS.
> >
> >No, it's estimated you'd pay about 10p, which is negligible compared
> >to the motherboard. 
> 
> 10p might cover the cost of the CD.  Now add the costs for building
> the CD, and supporting the software (including hiring and training
> support staff, and their associated office needs)

They could just bundle an existing Live CD. But if they want to add some
branding and their Windows drivers etc it would only take about a day's
work. Why would they have to hire support staff? Do they even pretend to
support the existing bundled crap? If they do, is it in reality any more
than a premium rate phone number routed to a random Asian call centre
they have nothing to do with other than splitting the profits from the
calls?

> Now compare that cost against the benefit?  Who would buy a
> motherboard that happens to include an operating system targeted at
> users who are capable of grabbing it for free on their own anyway?
> 
> My grandmother sure won't care, she can't use Linux anyway.  A few
> geeks might care, but I don't know of a geek that can't manage to get
> Linux running on their own if they care to make it a priority.
> 
> >The cost of a garbage OS is anything from £10 to £200+
> >depending on whether you're trying to buy it or get a refund after
> >having it foisted on you.
> 
> I don't buy hardware that bundles an OS I don't want.

But a lot of people do. They may not be capable of building their own
PC, or so they think, but many mainstream magazines are telling them
to avoid Vista, which is what they'll be forced to have if they buy an
off-the-shelf PC.

> >I prefer to download the driver using a system that is net-capable
> >and either copy it onto the Windows drive/partition if it's Linux on
> >the same PC, or use a USB key if it isn't.
> 
> Good theory, but manufacturers need to be able to sell hardware that
> works without an existing system to get it working.

Bundling Linux is a way of achieving that.

> Personally, I can't say I'm even willing to do tech work without an
> internet connection available anymore except in exceptional
> circumstances.
> 
> I really like how my EVDO card works, when you first insert it, if no
> driver connects to the EVDO portion of the card it switched to CD mode
> (emulating a CDROM) with drivers onboard.  Once you install the
> drivers, the CD disappears and you don't see it again unless you
> disable/uninstall the EVDO card.
> 
> I'd love to see motherboards offer similar, and adding 64MB of flash
> would probably be cheaper then distributing CDs due to the fact that
> the flash can be updated trivially whereas CDs cannot be updated once
> they're pressed.

I've seen a similar idea backfire. My mother's digital camera came with
a driver which my father dutifully installed for her. The driver was to
use it in webcam mode, and with it installed the camera failed to appear
as a storage device to get the photos off!

> >> Well actually maybe I wouldn't, since it would cut into my billable
> >> hours for newb PC builders.   But ya know.
> >
> >Funny how so many people that rubbish Linux make a living by charging
> >for wasted time.
> 
> Nobody around here actually uses Linux for anything other then
> servers, there simply isn't a market.  Even my Linux geek friends at
> best manage a couple Linux servers in otherwise nearly homogeneous
> Windows shops.
> 
> In all my consulting and local IT contacts, I've yet to hear of any
> company actually using anything other then Windows on the desktops.

That isn't really because Linux is "garbage", it's all to do with
Microsoft's monopoly and the availability of certain software. My sister
and her husband aren't geeks, but they dual boot now, using Windows only
for games and Ubuntu Linux for web, email and basic OpenOffice work.
They find it's quite usable, whereas no matter how hard we tried with
various anti-malware programs (admittedly only free ones, but stuff with
a good reputation like AVG, Avast, Adaware and SpyBot) their Windows
installation would always end up getting severely 0wned.

> Don't get me wrong, I would really love to see some real competition
> out there.  A dozen years since I started hearing "Linux is ready for
> the desktop" and how long with OSX out there, and the combination of
> the two is still fighting over 10% of the desktop marketplace.

I thought the figure was supposed to be more like 1%. Maybe Vista caused
the extra 9% ;-). Also, you can't get accurate usage figures for Linux
because hardly anyone buys it, they download it.

-- 
TH * http://www.realh.co.uk