🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 08:51:01 +0000, Paul Black <paul.black@oxsemi.com>
wrote:

>I've been looking at getting another ISDN card/TA as I seem to have trouble
>with my Speedway card (not sure if it's card problems or driver problems
>or something else). I was looking at the Hayes Accura ISDN TA web page and
>have a couple of queries:

Yes.

> - Would external TAs using AT commands just be treated as a modem (i.e. use
>   pppd) and require no special kernel support?

Yes.

> - What about compression? Demon provide STAC and MS-STAC but the web page
>   mentions "V.42bis Data Compression over ISDN using V.120 & X.75", are
>   they different terms for a similar thing or does it mean STAC/MS-STAC is
>   not supported?
>

No, I am sorry, V.42 bis data compression is for modems. Do you
actually know what a modem means? ISDN is completely digital and does
not need a modem unless you want to connect to the old fashioned world
of 2nd generation telecommunications.

Stac is used for ISDN digital networks It is now the de-facto
standard. What you refer to as MS-Stac is someone who thinks he has a
proprietary right to the web and now thinks he is so omni-potent that
he can add his companies initials to the standard.

As to the real question V.120 and  X 75 are not used in  > 99 % 
of any connections.

Hardly, anyone makes connections at V.120 or X75 to IP's as these are
old analogue related formats.

Put it another way ppp sync is how 99% of ISDN dumb or active cards
make their connections to their respective information providers
(IP's).  (Sorry, net police man I now put the full stop outside the 
quotation marks the US way. ( Please discuss)....





Barry Schofield

Check out the FAQ's on ISDN and Phones & TA's
PCI and Ext TA's with drivers for Windoze and Linux.
New Linux PCI card, So-Bus terminaters and multiports
For the latest info on ISDN check out Lion's web site
at www.lioncom.net. 

Hallo Barry!

11 December 1999 17:34 schreef Barry Schofield aan All:

 BS> No, I am sorry, V.42 bis data compression is for modems. Do you

 ???? Did you ever read the CAPI documents? I do not think so. Do not
 talk rubbish like this. V.42bis data compression is also specified in
 CAPI documents. I did not succeed to connect a modem to a CAPI driver

 If you can think you can call my questions rubbish than I call your
 answers: mislead people, not aware of facts, not aware what you can buy for
 your money and a very very bad business man. Keep yourself to your sales
 and let those people who have knowledge about the stuff talk.

 BS> As to the real question V.120 and  X 75 are not used in  > 99 %
 BS> of any connections.

 B U L L .. I think you have never run a own BBS on ISDN. Did you?

 98% of the call here on my BBS are X.75. V.120 is used 1% and a user who
 does not understand asynchronous connections is using HDLC/PPP

 What about people who want to use PC-Anywhere with ISDN. What do they run?
 You suggest your customers to build a dialin system with HDLC/PPP with
 TCP/IP ..

 I am talking about BUSINESS! Not about the retail end-user market.

 What about people who want to play GAMES to each other over ISDN ..


 BS> Hardly, anyone makes connections at V.120 or X75 to IP's as these are
 BS> old analogue related formats.

 You never have been in contact with Compuserve? As I am right they are
 now testing with HDCL/PPP dialup connections in the Swiss .. But everywhere
 else you need above connections.

 BS> Put it another way ppp sync is how 99% of ISDN dumb or active cards
 BS> make their connections to their respective information providers
 BS> (IP's).

 ISDN has more functions than connect yourself to an ISP.


Tjsak....
              - Dennis -
--
       dennis@babysoft.xs4all.nl
 ... On the move with BabySoft BBS ...
        http://www.babysoft.net

On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 08:51:01 +0000, Paul Black <paul.black@oxsemi.com>
wrote:

>I've been looking at getting another ISDN card/TA as I seem to have trouble
>with my Speedway card (not sure if it's card problems or driver problems
>or something else). I was looking at the Hayes Accura ISDN TA web page and
>have a couple of queries:
> - Would external TAs using AT commands just be treated as a modem (i.e. use
>   pppd) and require no special kernel support?

Yes this is usually the case. You should be able to plug-in an active
card, or use an external TA without any changes in the software, or
have addiitional drivers. They do look like modems, but TA's are not
modems, unless they have a built-in integrated modem to continue
connecting to the old analogue telecom world.

> - What about compression? Demon provide STAC and MS-STAC but the web page
>   mentions "V.42bis Data Compression over ISDN using V.120 & X.75", are
>   they different terms for a similar thing or does it mean STAC/MS-STAC is
>   not supported?
>

V.42 bis is the analogue world just as V.120 & X.75 are interim
bridges between the analogue world and ISDN. None of these are
necessary now and were only used in the early days of ISDN.

PPP sync is the most common connection protocol -the internet
standard- and now STAC is the digital compression de-facto standard.


Barry Schofield 

Linux PCI TA 128Kbps �25 are now available. Free
RedHat 6.1. Check our web site www.lioncom.net. 

bscho@lioncom.net (Barry Schofield) wrote:
> > - What about compression? Demon provide STAC and MS-STAC but the web page
> >   mentions "V.42bis Data Compression over ISDN using V.120 & X.75", are
> >   they different terms for a similar thing or does it mean STAC/MS-STAC is
> >   not supported?
> >
> 
> V.42 bis is the analogue world just as V.120 & X.75 are interim
> bridges between the analogue world and ISDN. None of these are
> necessary now and were only used in the early days of ISDN.
> 
> PPP sync is the most common connection protocol -the internet
> standard- and now STAC is the digital compression de-facto standard.

That's two posts from Bullshit Barry replying to my original query 
and in both he's failed to answer the question. Why am I not surprised.

Paul

On Sat, 18 Dec 1999 19:47:03 +0000, Paul Black <paul@canix.co.uk> wrote:
>> > - What about compression? Demon provide STAC and MS-STAC but the web page
>> >   mentions "V.42bis Data Compression over ISDN using V.120 & X.75", are
>> >   they different terms for a similar thing or does it mean STAC/MS-STAC is
>> >   not supported?
>That's two posts from Bullshit Barry replying to my original query 
>and in both he's failed to answer the question. Why am I not surprised.

I can't find your original question but:

Yes a serially connected external TA should behave just like a modem.
They can usually convert async PPP (from pppd) into sync PPP internally.
V42bis is compression applied to all the data travelling down the line,
STAC is compression applied to the contents of PPP packets.

The only connection that they have is that they both compress data and
the absence of one does not necessarily preclude the usage of the other.

Very few (if any?) ISPs will support V42bis over ISDN.  Many will support
some type of IPCP (ppp) compression.


Faye

-- 
Faye Pearson,
Systems Programmer,
ClaraNET Ltd.       Tel 020 7903 3000

'Tis the dream of each programmer,
Before his life is done,
To write three lines of APL,
And make the damn things run.

Dennis <Dennis@babysoft.xs4all.nl> wrote:
> Hallo Barry!

> 11 December 1999 17:34 schreef Barry Schofield aan All:

>  BS> No, I am sorry, V.42 bis data compression is for modems. Do you

>  ???? Did you ever read the CAPI documents? I do not think so. Do not
>  talk rubbish like this. V.42bis data compression is also specified in
>  CAPI documents. I did not succeed to connect a modem to a CAPI driver

Does V.42bis care what the nature of the physical link is, it's
simply a compression mechanism...

In article <385b8df7.4704295@news.netdirect.net.uk>, Barry Schofield
<bscho@lioncom.net> writes
>On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 08:51:01 +0000, Paul Black <paul.black@oxsemi.com>
>wrote:
>> - What about compression? Demon provide STAC and MS-STAC but the web page
>>   mentions "V.42bis Data Compression over ISDN using V.120 & X.75", are
>>   they different terms for a similar thing or does it mean STAC/MS-STAC is
>>   not supported?

As Faye has already answered, V.42bis is rarely used on ISDN. For
Internet connections you normally used sync PPP and do your compression
at the PPP level using some flavour of STAC.

If you're using a Microsoft OS with Demon, you can use the MS stack to
handle the compression for you - set your Demon setting to MS_STAC, turn
"Enable software compression" on and use the Green ROMP (or the Red/Blue
ROMP if you're using Windows 9x).



>V.42 bis is the analogue world just as V.120 & X.75 are interim
>bridges between the analogue world and ISDN. None of these are
>necessary now and were only used in the early days of ISDN.

V.120 and X.75 are very necessary for making ISDN calls to other ISDN
devices where you don't want to talk PPP. Kindly engage your brain
before writing, Barry. V.110 is highly useful too - for making digital
data calls on GSM.


>PPP sync is the most common connection protocol -the internet
>standard- and now STAC is the digital compression de-facto standard.

Considering that there are several flavours of STAC around, and none of
them are quite standardised, there are interworking issues between
different manufacturer's kit and various patents flying around, too, the
latter statement is a gross oversimplification. There again, it's a
Barry post - what do you expect?





David
-- 
David Wood
david@wood2.org.uk      ** NOTE NEW ADDRESS **
My old address, david@wood2.demon.co.uk, will continue to work for an
indefinite period, but please update your address book if relevant.