🚀 go-pugleaf

"pearl" wrote:
> "I R Canuck" wrote:
> > "pearl" wrote:
> > > "I R Canuck" wrote:
> > > > "pearl" wrote:
> > > > > "I R Canuck" wrote:
> > > > > > "pearl" wrote:
> > > > > > > Harp seals and Cod
> > > > > > > Questions and Answers
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <SNIP Answers to questions posed by those who've done no research
> > > > > > and would like to pretend Canada is 'scapegoating' the seal>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://www.dfo-mpo.gc.ca/media/backgrou/2003/hq-ac01b_e.htm
> > > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > > Impact of Seal Predation on Cod
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The 2001 Report of the Eminent Panel on Seal Management concluded
> > > > > > that seals consume large amounts of fish throughout Atlantic Canada,
> > > > > > but there is much less evidence that this predation is having a major
> > > > > > impact on the recovery of most commercial fish stocks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The findings of the report were not conclusive and many uncertainties
> > > > > > were acknowledged in providing realistic predictions. The Panel
> > > > > > acknowledged that gaining an understanding of the real impact of seals
> > > > > > on the recovery of cod is extremely complex and requires an in-depth
> > > > > > understanding of the marine ecosystem as well as additional research.
> > > > > > Findings highlighted in the report include:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The consumption of cod, and some other commercial species, by seals
> > > > > > in Divisions 2J3KL and 4RS3Pn is so large that a reduction in seal
> > > > > > predation could reasonably be expected to have a substantial effect on
> > > > > > the size of these stocks. However, the extent of this reduction would
> > > > > > have to be large in order for an impact to be observed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is not a simple, straight-line relationship between seal predation
> > > > > > and the state of fish populations. The interaction between seals,
> > > > > > groundfish and other species is complex and variable. For instance,
> > > > > > seals eat cod, but seals also eat other fish that prey on cod. Moreover,
> > > > > > other factors such as environmental changes and fishing levels must be
> > > > > > considered in trying to determine why cod stocks have not yet recovered.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The harp seal population has grown to the highest level recorded.
> > > > > > Coupled with the fact that the annual TAC has rarely been taken in full,
> > > > > > the panel expects a gradual increase in seal numbers if the current
> > > > > > management approach is maintained.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The current scientific knowledge is insufficient to determine the impact
> > > > > > of a seal cull on cod fisheries in the short, medium or long term. Science
> > > > > > and resource managers question the value of a cull in a fishery driven by
> > > > > > economic market conditions. More importantly, there is no way of
> > > > > > knowing how other predators and prey might respond to a decrease in
> > > > > > the seal population.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Current estimates of cod consumption by seals vary greatly from less
> > > > > > than one per cent to more than 20 per cent of diet, depending on the
> > > > > > type of seal researched, the time of year and location of the studies.
> > > > > > The panel concluded that more comprehensive research needs to be
> > > > > > done to more accurately estimate the amount of cod that seals are
> > > > > > consuming.
> > > > > > __________________________________________________________
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I see no scapegoating.
> > > > >
> > > > > 'Canadian Natural Resources Minister John Efford said many
> > > > > claims about the hunt were simply wrong. He argued that the
> > > > > seal population was exploding - with an estimated 5.2 million
> > > > > harp seals in the North Atlantic at present � and commercial
> > > > > fish stocks were vanishing. '
> > > > > http://www.indolink.com/displayArticleS.php?id=041304105510
> > > >
> > > > So, let me get this straight.  When looking for Canadian Goverment
> > > > opinions, one should look to 'indolink' an indian news site (Even
> > > > considering they don't provide a quote) as opposed to say . . .
> > > > the Canadian Government.
> > > >
> > > > Face it pearl, the Canadian Government has been falsely accused
> > > > of 'scapegoating' seals as the cause of the decline in fish stocks.
> > > >
> > > > As far as John Efford goes.  Even in the 'indolink' news story, he
> > > > didn't accuse the seal of being the cause for the decline in cod
> > > > populations.  He simply noted that:
> > > > 1. The seal population has reached a record high (since recording
> > > > began).
> > > > 2. The commercial fish stock is vanishing.
> > > > Both of which are true.  It's not up to you to put words into his (or
> > > > anyone elses) mouth, like you do so often.
> > >
> > > Please.  As if a link wasn't implied.
> >
> > A link wasn't implied by John Efford, just like the IFAW veterinary
> > study never says that 40+% of seals are skinned alive.
>
> Yes, it does.  42% of clubbed seals were found to have
> insufficient cranial damage to render permanently unconscious,
> and unless bled immediately (6% of the total), they were.
> Of the remaining 58% many may have sustained severe cranial
> damage during the skinning (79% of 'hunters' failed to perform
> a corneal reflex check). Also, of all those observed being skinned
> (counting possibles), nearly 40% were, whether shot or clubbed.

You've assumed that all seals are skinned immediately.  They
are not.  The IFAW veterinary report never says "40+% of seals
are skinned alive" period!  The IFAW observations showed
1.66% of seals skinned alive.

> > You poorly
> > interpret things and then draw false meanings.
>
> BS.  You refuse to accept the facts of the matter.

It's the truth, you twist everything you read.

> > Like I said before,
> > that wasn't even a direct quote, who knows how out of context those
> > statements may have been.  They may not even have been said in
> > the same day.
>
> Read your own quote below.

That statement was in regards to Mr. Efford not Mr. Reid.

> > > And if you don't like the source,
> > > see;  http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994877
> > > "There is no doubt that seal predation on groundfish is impeding
> > > the recovery of those stocks," said Gerry Reid, minister of fisheries
> > > and aquaculture for Newfoundland at the time.."
> >
> > http://www.gov.nf.ca/releases/2003/fishaq/0203n03.htm
> > "There is no doubt that seal predation on groundfish is impeding the
> > recovery of those stocks," added Minister Reid. "The seal herd is in
> > excess of five million, and as the herd continues to enjoy a population
> > explosion, the cod fishery simultaneously decreases and suffers
> > higher mortality rates. There are certainly a number of issues which
> > need to be addressed in dealing with the state of the cod fisheries,
> > and one of the main factors is the impact of seal predation. An
> > increase in the TAC will not solve this problem, however it is a step in
> > the right direction."
> >
> > As can be seen when he's not being taken out of context, he realises
> > that this isn't the only problem.
>
> Who said he did?  Quit squirming.

There is no 'squirming' neither Mr. Reid nor Mr. Efford are responsible
for setting quotas.  Why should their statements be used by yourself
as representational of the Canadian Goverment's opinions?

> > Also, he's a minister for Newfoundland, not Canada.  While he has
> > input into the decisions (much like the IFAW, CVMA, CSA, etc...)
> > he doesn't make decisions.  His was a reactionary statement to
> > an announcement of a quota increase.
>
> Please.  We're not all complete fools, you know.

What is that supposed to mean, besides you are unable to respond
to my statement.  Your source took Gerry Reid's statement out of
context and he's not even in a position to make decisions.

http://globeandmail.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/front/RTGAM/20021202/wcodd1202/Front/homeBN/breakingnews

Mr. Reid doesn't set quotas.  He is a provincial (not federal) minister.
You have no understanding of Canadian politics.

> > http://www.newscientist.com/news/news.jsp?id=ns99994877
> > "He says the decline in cod stocks is due to overfishing. "There is no
> > scientific evidence to suggest that harp seals impede their recovery.
> > That doesn't mean that they aren't - it's just that there's no evidence
> > to suggest they are," he told New Scientist."
>
> Said Lavigne, not Reid.

Yes, please make note of "That doesn't mean that they aren't".