🚀 go-pugleaf

Don Pearce wrote:
> On Sat, 7 May 2005 12:10:20 +0000 (UTC), Rob
> <removethisbitgramsci@btinternet.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Tim Martin wrote:
>>
>>>"Rob" <removethisbitgramsci@btinternet.com> wrote in message
>>>news:d5i6nk$r1c$1@nwrdmz03.dmz.ncs.ea.ibs-infra.bt.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Direct and indirect discrimination of Irish communities ... *remains* an
>>>
>>>institutionalised aspect of
>>>
>>>
>>>>British society.
>>>
>>>
>>>Please feel free to explain.  If I understand that's going on, I'll write to
>>>my MP and instruct him to put a stop to it.
>>>
>>>Tim
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Fair enough :-).
>>
>>Take a quick look at http://www.cre.gov.uk/downloads/irinbrit.pdf - 
>>plenty of documented evidence, although rather sketchy. Examples of 
>>stereotypes - and that is what they are - can be found much closer to 
>>home. In this very thread in fact.
>>
>>As to why people hold these attitudes and assuming you can take them as 
>>a 'given', the answer is complex and controversial. It's basically the 
>>same as the answer to 'why racism?'. I have an informed opinion  - 
>>rather OT for this group ;-).
>>
>>If you fancy trying this out, go into a pub with a 'No travellers' sign 
>>in the window, and strike up a conversation about the benefits of ethnic 
>>diversity with the locals. Make sure you have a clear route to the door.
>>
>>Rob
> 
> 
> I don't know where you live, but  here in London I believe there is no
> discrimination.

I live in London - presumably you're talking about Irish people. If your 
friends are 'working class' Irish-Catholic I'm very surprised, but your 
point is interesting. I once received a letter from Margaret Thatcher 
(when she was PM) asking me to move someone from an area because (as she 
saw it) the area contained Irish people, and (therefore, as she would 
have it) that person was at risk from terrorists. As I say - look at the 
CRE site. And to drag this thread vaguely on-topic - have a listen to 
Christy Moore! Or the Pogues.

  Certainly I have several Irish friends who have never
> talked to me about any troubles. On the other hand, while travelling
> in the Republic, I have encountered some anti-British racism. It was
> very much a minority thing, though, and it came from the kind of
> moronic neanderthal who would be a racist wherever he lived.

Quite!

> 
> As for the "No travellers" thing - that is rather different. There are
> certainly considerable problems associated with traveller communities.
> They tend to leave scenes of devastation in their wake when they leave
> a district, and hugely inflated crime rates while they are present.
> Whether they are Irish or not simply isn't an issue.

"They tend" - I'm afraid I don't agree. I don't mean to patronise here - 
I'm sure you've checked your facts - but for anyone else who happens by 
this thread - take a quick look at:

http://www.cre.gov.uk/gdpract/g_and_t_facts.html

Perhaps you could let me know your source please?

There is no tendency for travellers en bloc to *cause* problems. That 
wasn't really my point. In my experience a "No travellers" sign is an 
indication of bad attitudes within the pub.

  On the other
> hand, perhaps you are the one making the racial link with trouble...

Do you mean linking trouble with race? I don't think race is the cause 
of any discrimination - it's people's attitudes about race. Now, where 
they get those attitudes from is an interesting issue.

Rob