🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:53:37 +0100, judith wrote:

On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:

> In 2007 - I see that there were 1096 cyclists involved in accidents 
> in the category  "Cyclist entering road from pavement"
> 
> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
> place?

Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?

-- 
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"Her kisses left something to be desired -- the rest of her."

In article <dc30r5-nft.ln1@bigjohn.hug>, paul@the-hug.org says...
> On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:
> 

Paul, please don't feed the troll.  Most everyone else is managing to 
resist and it would help if you could too.

-- 
Tony  

"In the fevered state of our country, no good can ever result from any
attempt to set one of these fiery zealots to rights, either in fact or
principle. They are determined as to the facts they will believe, and
the opinions on which they will act. Get by them, therefore, as you
would by an angry bull; it is not for a man of sense to dispute the road
with such an animal." 
- Thomas Jefferson

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:12:51 +0100, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org>
said in <dc30r5-nft.ln1@bigjohn.hug>:

>> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
>> place?
>
>Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?

Or riding on one of those damn silly dangerous "shared use" footways
that idiot councils keep creating.

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:12:51 +0100, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org>
wrote:

>On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:
>
>> In 2007 - I see that there were 1096 cyclists involved in accidents 
>> in the category  "Cyclist entering road from pavement"
>> 
>> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
>> place?
>
>Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?

And - your answer to why they were on the pavement in the first place
is what?

On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:30:01 +0100, Tony Raven
<junk@raven-family.invalid> wrote:

>In article <dc30r5-nft.ln1@bigjohn.hug>, paul@the-hug.org says...
>> On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:
>> 
>
>Paul, please don't feed the troll.  Most everyone else is managing to 
>resist and it would help if you could too.


Why thank you Tony - some people are willing to enter serious debate -
obviously you aren't up to it.

On 27/09/08 00:03, judith wrote:

> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:12:51 +0100, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org>
> wrote:
> 
>> On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:
>>
>>> In 2007 - I see that there were 1096 cyclists involved in accidents 
>>> in the category  "Cyclist entering road from pavement"
>>>
>>> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
>>> place?
>>
>> Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?
> 
> And - your answer to why they were on the pavement in the first place
> is what?

They entered it from the drive of their house obviously. Just like cars do.

In all seriousness I know the point you're driving at but I would 
imagine that sort of scenario is a very plausible one for accidents not 
least because the incidence angle will be far higher than dropping off 
the pavement along which they have been illegally cycling.

-- 
Paul Oldham ----------> http://the-hug.org/paul
Milton villager ------> http://www.miltonvillage.org.uk/
and FAQ wiki owner ---> http://cam.misc.org.uk
"f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgmmng"

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008 00:01:02 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<guy.chapman@spamcop.net> wrote:

>On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:12:51 +0100, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org>
>said in <dc30r5-nft.ln1@bigjohn.hug>:
>
>>> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
>>> place?
>>
>>Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?
>
>Or riding on one of those damn silly dangerous "shared use" footways
>that idiot councils keep creating.
>
>Guy


Oh I see - if you use one which is a shared use (and there was no
indication at all that they were - the term used was "pavement" - not
cycle path or cycle lane) I would have thought that you should have
your eyes open for pedestrians  - never mind about for other vehicle)

On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org> wrote:
> 
>  In all seriousness I know the point you're driving at

She's a self-confessed lying troll.  The only point she is driving at 
is to get a response.  Please don't encourage it.

regards,   Ian SMith
-- 
  |\ /|      no .sig
  |o o|
  |/ \|

On 27 Sep 2008 07:36:13 GMT, Ian Smith <ian@astounding.org.uk> wrote:

>On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Paul Oldham <paul@the-hug.org> wrote:
>> 
>>  In all seriousness I know the point you're driving at
>
>She's a self-confessed lying troll.  The only point she is driving at 
>is to get a response.  Please don't encourage it.
>
>regards,   Ian SMith


Thank you for your considered opinion Ian - are there some facts in
the latest DfT stats which are unpalatable to you? - just ignore them
- they'll go away ;-)


(PS - that was really funny setting follow-ups to alt.test - you
really are a card!!!!)

On Sep 26, 1:23 pm, _ <jtayNOSPAM...@hfDONTSENDMESPAMx.andara.com>
wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 09:53:37 +0100, judith wrote:

Fuck off and die, you useless cunt.  No-one's paying the slightest
attention to you anyway.

On Sep 27, 12:01 am, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<guy.chap...@spamcop.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 26 Sep 2008 23:12:51 +0100, Paul Oldham <p...@the-hug.org>
> said in <dc30r5-nft....@bigjohn.hug>:
>
> >> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
> >> place?
>
> >Passing over it to enter the road? Just like cars do?
>
> Or riding on one of those damn silly dangerous "shared use" footways
> that idiot councils keep creating.

Remember, many cycle lanes these days are created solely as an excuse
to steal roadspace from cars.  So a spiteful motorist-hating creep
like you should love them (and who cares if they're dangerous?  After
all, you still support cameras, despite knowing how dangerous they
are).

On Sep 27, 11:01 am, judith <judithsm...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> On 27 Sep 2008 07:36:13 GMT, Ian Smith <i...@astounding.org.uk> wrote:
>
> >On Sat, 27 Sep 2008, Paul Oldham <p...@the-hug.org> wrote:
>
> >>  In all seriousness I know the point you're driving at
>
> >She's a self-confessed lying troll.  The only point she is driving at
> >is to get a response.  Please don't encourage it.
>
> >regards,   Ian SMith
>
> Thank you for your considered opinion Ian - are there some facts in
> the latest DfT stats which are unpalatable to you? - just ignore them
> - they'll go away ;-)

It's a common theme round here unfortunately.  See a "difficult" fact,
ignore it and pretend that you haven't seen it, and instead call its
poster a "troll".  Do these people go through their whole lives
ignoring truths that they don't like?  If so, it's hard to see how
they ever improve themselves in any way.  If they won't ever admit to
being wrong about anything, won't ever learn from their mistakes, and
always shoot the messenger whenever they hear something they don't
want to, it's likely that they are (and always will be)
unknowledgeable, opinionated, difficult to deal with and unpopular.
Whereas if they would just start acknowledging awkward truths and
learning to live with and adapt to them, they would make things much,
much easier for themselves and those around them in the long run.

(How far do you take it when you're like that?  If there's a war on
where you are, do you still behave as though there isn't, because you
don't want there to be?  Do you call people "trolls" when they tell
you there's a war on?  Generally, it's not really much of a way to
live, nor is it much of a way to conduct yourself on the Internet, so
snap out of it please trolls.  There are too many cyclists on
pavements, there are lots of cyclists dying, and speed cameras kill
people; you just need to accept and deal with such things.  Thanks in
advance.)

On Sep 26, 11:30 pm, Tony Raven <j...@raven-family.invalid> wrote:
> In article <dc30r5-nft....@bigjohn.hug>, p...@the-hug.org says...
>
> > On 26/09/08 09:53, judith wrote:
>
> Paul, please don't feed the troll.  Most everyone else is managing to
> resist and it would help if you could too.

"La la la, I'm not listening, and I don't think you should either".
If you're going to ignore posts which you find awkward, that's up to
you (unhelpful behaviour though it is), but don't infect the threads
which contain them by trying to get others to adopt your bad attitude.

(If you and your ilk just said "We don't like people who have certain
viewpoints posting them in this newsgroup", that would be much nearer
the mark, and that way, people like judith might actually respect your
wishes, whereas no-one tends to bother respecting the wishes of those
who are lying about what those wishes are.  I know that if people
responded to my posts with things like "We don't want people posting
anti-camera viewpoints in here, however correct they might be, because
we prefer not to have to debate such issues as it tends to make us
look silly", I'd be much more likely to disappear from here than I am
with the current "Go away, troll" reaction which I get from people who
know that they can't refute my points.  Just a little honesty, in
place of the current unsporting, obnoxious, predictable and repetitive
behaviour from those who don't like being proved wrong, would go a
very long way.  So, anyone who really wants me to go away knows what
they have to do...or is telling the truth an even worse prospect for
you trolls than me staying here?  I suspect it is, but we shall see.)

On 26 Sep, 09:53, judith <judithsm...@live.co.uk> wrote:
> In 2007 - I see that there were 1096 cyclists involved in accidents
> in the category  "Cyclist entering road from pavement"
>
> begs the question what were they doing on the pavement  in the first
> place?
>
> (the DfT makes quite clear "pavements" are for pedestrians and not
> cyclists)

Actually, those stats do not differentiate "pavement" from shared use
cyclepath-cum-footway. As you are not a cyclist it may have escaped
your notice that local councils up and down the country are busy
painting bike symbols on "pavements", in a pretence of creating
cycling facilities - but really just to get cyclists off the road
without spending any real money!

The worst thing about these half-baked pavement cyclepaths is where
they meet a side road. At that point the cyclist is "entering road
from pavement" and has to look in three different directions at once
(one of which requires eyes in the back of the head) in order to avoid
being run over. Unsurprisingly, research from countries where such
facilities are even more common than here reveals an awful lot of
accidents at side roads.

Most countries reduce the carnage by making the cars give way to bikes
at these crossing points, which works because the approaching driver
does not have to look in too many different directions all at once.
Except where the bike path is two-way. Helsinki has two-way bikepaths
on one side of most of its main roads, and the overwhelming majority
of cycling accidents in that city are when cars entering or leaving
side roads hit cyclists using the bikepath to cross its mouth, in the
opposite direction to the immediately adjacent stream of traffic. Even
looking two ways at once is evidently too much of a challenge.

To be reasonbly safe: cyclepaths need to have right of way over side-
roads and to be on both sides of the road, in same direction as
adjacent traffic. Helsinki is rebuilding it's bikepaths like that.
Meanwhile Britain ignorantly persists in creating deathtraps out of
white paint. As more of these paths are created we can expect an
increasing number of cyclists involved in accidents in the category
"Cyclist entering road from pavement". And nobody will do anything
about it because on the face of it that sounds like the cyclist's own
fault!

http://www.zagura.ro/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/god-kills-kitten-troll.jpg

LN

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:55:02 -0700 (PDT), CJ
<chris.juden@ctc.org.uk> said in
<b0aeccfe-52e9-480a-a6b6-ff288ad054a2@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:

>Actually, those stats do not differentiate "pavement" from shared use
>cyclepath-cum-footway. As you are not a cyclist it may have escaped
>your notice that local councils up and down the country are busy
>painting bike symbols on "pavements", in a pretence of creating
>cycling facilities - but really just to get cyclists off the road
>without spending any real money!

"judith" knows this perfectly well, "she" is just trolling.  I
recommend killfiling early to save time.

Guy
-- 
May contain traces of irony.  Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:01:09 +0100, lardyninja <lardyninja@gmx.net>
wrote:

>
>
>http://www.zagura.ro/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/god-kills-kitten-troll.jpg
>
>LN


My word - that's funny  - thanks for the "food" - for thought.

On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 11:27:53 +0100, "Just zis Guy, you know?"
<guy.chapman@spamcop.net> wrote:

>On Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:55:02 -0700 (PDT), CJ
><chris.juden@ctc.org.uk> said in
><b0aeccfe-52e9-480a-a6b6-ff288ad054a2@m44g2000hsc.googlegroups.com>:
>
>>Actually, those stats do not differentiate "pavement" from shared use
>>cyclepath-cum-footway. As you are not a cyclist it may have escaped
>>your notice that local councils up and down the country are busy
>>painting bike symbols on "pavements", in a pretence of creating
>>cycling facilities - but really just to get cyclists off the road
>>without spending any real money!
>
>"judith" knows this perfectly well, "she" is just trolling.  I
>recommend killfiling early to save time.
>
>Guy


Why thank you  Guy - why do you want to deter CJ coming up with a
sensible counter to what I said? - which is indeed what he/she has
done

Oh - I forgot - it is so easy to say  - oh so-and-so is a troll -
ignore what they say - you then don't have to answer the difficult
questions do you.

i don't understand your words..
at first u talk about the dead of cyclists then suddenly u talk about
the pavement..
i didn't get it, dear!

xoxo,
aineecumi

neway, my secret to release tension is playing this game <a
href=http://www.gamestotal.com> http://www.gamestotal.com </a>   <a
href=http://uc.gamestotal.com> http://uc.gamestotal.com </a> <a
href=http://gc.gamestotal.com> http://gc.gamestotal.com </a> <a
href=http://3700ad.gamestotal.com> http://3700ad.gamestotal.com </a>
<a href=http://manga.gamestotal.com> http://manga.gamestotal.com </a>