🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <d2fvh216m6bca1bbo3h7j25c2au2q6pt0b@4ax.com>,
 Andrew Priest <andrew@aushiker.com> wrote:

> G'day
> 
> This is a blatant plug for BackpackGearTest. We want more Testers to
> test FREE gear. Why? Read on.

Be aware that you will be getting between 3 and 12 e-mails a day, 99% of 
which are directed to some other individual tester.

I have just given up trying to submit my first owner review. A 
frustrating process with a lack of accurate documentation on what you 
are supposed to do and little help available when you try to do what you 
are asked to. (However, thanks to Roger who helped in an unofficial 
capacity.)

By all means sign up if you think the prospect of free gear is worth it. 
I didn't.

Cheers

David

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:15:23 +1000, David Morrison
<davidmor@excite.com> wrote:

>In article <d2fvh216m6bca1bbo3h7j25c2au2q6pt0b@4ax.com>,
> Andrew Priest <andrew@aushiker.com> wrote:
>
>> G'day
>> 
>> This is a blatant plug for BackpackGearTest. We want more Testers to
>> test FREE gear. Why? Read on.
>
>Be aware that you will be getting between 3 and 12 e-mails a day, 99% of 
>which are directed to some other individual tester.
>
>I have just given up trying to submit my first owner review. A 
>frustrating process with a lack of accurate documentation on what you 
>are supposed to do and little help available when you try to do what you 
>are asked to. (However, thanks to Roger who helped in an unofficial 
>capacity.)
>
>By all means sign up if you think the prospect of free gear is worth it. 
>I didn't.
>
>Cheers
>
>David

I've often thought about signing up as I have done numerous reviews on
several  outdoor websites I'm involved with but for one reason or
another haven't (as yet).

Nevertheless, I find it a great resource for information regarding
equipment I may be interested in purchasing for my future outings.


Blues

Live Free Or Die

On Mon, 02 Oct 2006 22:15:23 +1000, David Morrison
<davidmor@excite.com> wrote:

>In article <d2fvh216m6bca1bbo3h7j25c2au2q6pt0b@4ax.com>,

>
>I have just given up trying to submit my first owner review. A 
>frustrating process with a lack of accurate documentation on what you 
>are supposed to do and little help available when you try to do what you 
>are asked to.

David

I can't comment on the specifics of this claim (re lack of help)as
none are provided  but at best I would find the claim surprising.

There is a great group of VOLUNTEERS including mentors who jump over
backwards to help people, so at best I am surprised by this comment if
not offended on their behalf. Did you bother to ask for a mentor?
Maybe you could contact me directly with the specifics to backup your
comments so I may investigate further.

As to the documentation, well there is a guides on How to Become a
Tester plus full documentation again written in the blood and sweat of
the volunteers, so again I confused by this comment.

You  need also  to keep in mind David that BackpackGearTest.org is NOT
some commercial organisation, it is just a bunch of VOLUNTEERS so
sometimes people actually have lives etc and can't always jump
instantly to help, so it helps for all concerned to have realistic
expectations in terms "service."

All that said sometimes our approach is not for some  folks and some
folks don't like the standards we set in terms of editing etc. It
sounds like what we do is not for you and that happens.

All the best with your walking etc.

Cheers
Andrew

> Be aware that you will be getting between 3 and 12 e-mails a day, 99% of
> which are directed to some other individual tester.
NOT TRUE ! ! !
You can get every single posting sent to you as a separate email if you
wish. Virtually no-one does though.
You can also get them sent as a single 'digest' of up to 25 emails
concatenated together. This is controlled by the user profile YOU create at
Yahoogroups. I do this, and get maybe one or sometimes two emails a day per
Yahoo group.

> I have just given up trying to submit my first owner review. A
> frustrating process with a lack of accurate documentation on what you
> are supposed to do and little help available when you try to do what you
> are asked to. (However, thanks to Roger who helped in an unofficial
> capacity.)
BGT understands the lack of accurate documentation, and has recently
completely rewritten all the rules and guidelines. But there is always
someone looking after your owner review, and that person can help. And we
have a full-blown Mentor program which will assign a single person to you to
coach you through the first few reviews. I know this Mentor process works -
but you have to ask for it. Dead simple though.

> By all means sign up if you think the prospect of free gear is worth it.
'Free Gear' is not the primary aim. Sorry - that doesn't work.
Being able to play with the very latest products and technology is and
provide reviews of that gear is the primary aim.
You have to be a bit of a gear freak, true. Some of us are! :-)

Cheers
Roger Caffin

In article <452186c3$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
 "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@tpg.com.au> wrote:

> > Be aware that you will be getting between 3 and 12 e-mails a day, 99% of
> > which are directed to some other individual tester.
> NOT TRUE ! ! !
> You can get every single posting sent to you as a separate email if you
> wish. Virtually no-one does though.
> You can also get them sent as a single 'digest' of up to 25 emails
> concatenated together. This is controlled by the user profile YOU create at
> Yahoogroups. I do this, and get maybe one or sometimes two emails a day per
> Yahoo group.

I appreciate that you can get them as a digest, but you still have to 
look at them to see if any are directed at you. I find it easier to get 
individual messages so I can go immediately to any that are for me 
rather than having to hunt through a digest.

> But there is always
> someone looking after your owner review, and that person can help. And we
> have a full-blown Mentor program which will assign a single person to you to
> coach you through the first few reviews. I know this Mentor process works -
> but you have to ask for it. Dead simple though.

Yes, but both of my attempts at e-mail contacts got no response. It was 
only when I contacted Roger privately (as I knew he was involved) that I 
got any answers.

> > By all means sign up if you think the prospect of free gear is worth it.
> 'Free Gear' is not the primary aim. Sorry - that doesn't work.

From Andrew Priest's posting:

> This is a blatant plug for BackpackGearTest. We want more Testers to
> test FREE gear. Why? Read on.

Sounds like free gear is what you are using to get people involved....

Cheers

David

In article <e9b2i2l57poe4rjb16f1f6aqh76rbkrhau@4ax.com>,
 Andrew Priest <andrew@aushiker.com> wrote:

> As to the documentation, well there is a guides on How to Become a
> Tester plus full documentation again written in the blood and sweat of
> the volunteers, so again I confused by this comment.

Hello Andrew

There is great documentation on how to get started. It is almost a model 
for a volunteer organisation to help people get involved. But some of it 
is wrong or incomplete which leads to frustration and wasted time.

I found it rather interesting that the moderators were dedicated to 
checking grammar and spelling, things that are fairly trivial in the 
scheme of things, but no-one seemed prepared to update the lessons that 
describe how to get started. Most new people are going to follow the 
lessons. In fact, the web site directs them to the lessons. Then they 
get told they have done the wrong thing when the lesson never mentioned 
it. Not exactly encouraging....

> You  need also  to keep in mind David that BackpackGearTest.org is NOT
> some commercial organisation, it is just a bunch of VOLUNTEERS so
> sometimes people actually have lives etc and can't always jump
> instantly to help, so it helps for all concerned to have realistic
> expectations in terms "service."

I appreciate they are volunteers, but I wonder whether their efforts 
could be directed towards more important things than spelling errors.

> All that said sometimes our approach is not for some  folks and some
> folks don't like the standards we set in terms of editing etc. It
> sounds like what we do is not for you and that happens.

I'm usually a pedant at spelling and grammar, so I don't have any 
problem with this. What I object to is spending time writing something 
then being told it is too long when a limit was never mentioned in the 
first place.

And this is the crux of the matter, I suppose. I embarked on this 
thinking I would spend a couple of hours over a week or so to get this 
done. Then it dragged on and on, sometimes needlessly. I have plenty of 
other things I need to do, so if this is typical, it is too much for me.

Good luck with it all. It's really a useful service.

Cheers

David

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:49:59 +1000, David Morrison
<davidmor@excite.com> wrote:


>I found it rather interesting that the moderators were dedicated to 
>checking grammar and spelling, things that are fairly trivial in the 
>scheme of things, but no-one seemed prepared to update the lessons that 
>describe how to get started. Most new people are going to follow the 
>lessons. In fact, the web site directs them to the lessons. Then they 
>get told they have done the wrong thing when the lesson never mentioned 
>it. Not exactly encouraging....

It is clear from your comments David that your expectations are beyond
what our volunteer group can do despite all our efforts.

All the best with your walking.

Regards
Andrew

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:48:33 +1000, David Morrison
<davidmor@excite.com> wrote:


>
>Sounds like free gear is what you are using to get people involved....

Maybe for some, but this sort of feedback received overnight from
GoLite is why I got involved in testing:

"Hi Andrew,

As always, thanks for notifying us of the latest reports. It is truly
our pleasure to receive the very thorough, detailed feedback from BGT
testers. We find it tremendously helpful to keeping our products as
functional as possible.

Warmly,
Jess"

Regards
Andrew Priest

> I found it rather interesting that the moderators were dedicated to
> checking grammar and spelling, things that are fairly trivial in the
> scheme of things,
Ah - the guys (and girls) referred to here are the (volunteer) Editors.
But they do a LOT more than checking grammar and spelling. Their real job is
to make sure the review is a good and accurate description of the gear and
will be of value to the reader.

The (volunteer) Moderators are another bunch, who look after the
organisation of the Tests.

>  but no-one seemed prepared to update the lessons that
> describe how to get started.
Ah - no. There has been a major effort to get all the 'rules' and guidelines
together into one place. This project has recently been completed.
But the best place to start is at the Home Page of BGT, where there is an
item 'How to become a Tester'. This leads to:
http://www.backpackgeartest.org/lesson.php?lesson=BecomeTester&page=1

But, we can always try to make this clearer. We will note the comments and
keep trying. Thanks for the feedback.

Cheers
Roger Caffin

On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:46:25 +0800, Andrew Priest
<andrew@aushiker.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 03 Oct 2006 08:48:33 +1000, David Morrison
><davidmor@excite.com> wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Sounds like free gear is what you are using to get people involved....
>
>Maybe for some, but this sort of feedback received overnight from
>GoLite is why I got involved in testing:
>
>"Hi Andrew,
>
>As always, thanks for notifying us of the latest reports. It is truly
>our pleasure to receive the very thorough, detailed feedback from BGT
>testers. We find it tremendously helpful to keeping our products as
>functional as possible.
>
>Warmly,
>Jess"
>
>Regards
>Andrew Priest

So recently I have had the opportunity to test 2 packs. One failed,
the other was a treat. I cant give a long term on the first pack as it
was returned damaged, but i can give a long term on the second. I wore
both with about 25kg's. Interested?

Hi Andy

> So recently I have had the opportunity to test 2 packs. One failed,
> the other was a treat. I cant give a long term on the first pack as it
> was returned damaged, but i can give a long term on the second. I wore
> both with about 25kg's. Interested?

But of course Backpackgeartest would be interested. We need more gear
testers.

If you need any help, there's a fine Mentor system running which will get
you individual assistance. You can ask for this help with an email to
mentor@backpackgeartest.org

The 'rules' are listed at http://www.backpackgeartest.org/requirements.php,
and they TRY to explain everything about BGT. Sure, they aren't perfect, but
we are all volunteers, and we are still working on it ... :-)

Cheers
Roger Caffin

David Morrison wrote:
> In article <452186c3$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>,
>  "Roger Caffin" <r.caffin@tpg.com.au> wrote:
> 
> 
>>>Be aware that you will be getting between 3 and 12 e-mails a day, 99% of
>>>which are directed to some other individual tester.
>>
>>NOT TRUE ! ! !
>>You can get every single posting sent to you as a separate email if you
>>wish. Virtually no-one does though.
>>You can also get them sent as a single 'digest' of up to 25 emails
>>concatenated together. This is controlled by the user profile YOU create at
>>Yahoogroups. I do this, and get maybe one or sometimes two emails a day per
>>Yahoo group.
> 

I just go to the website to read them.  I don't get the emails.

One thing that is a bit, oh, not well talked about I think, is that 
there seems to be a bit of a pecking order, whereby people who are 
mentors, editors, etc, MIGHT get chosen over others who are not acting 
in those capacities, based on their extra effort.

I guess that is one way to make sure you have mentors, editors, etc, but 
I'm finding that the amount of effort I'm putting out on applications, 
owner reviews, are really not cost effective regarding my time, and I've 
just gone out and bought myself a few things rather than trying to wend 
my way though the inner circle.

> One thing that is a bit, oh, not well talked about I think, is that
> there seems to be a bit of a pecking order, whereby people who are
> mentors, editors, etc, MIGHT get chosen over others who are not acting
> in those capacities, based on their extra effort.
I am one of the small number of Editors at BGT. I can assure you I miss out
on plenty of items I have applied for! Pity... Sob.
We are aware of the potential here for perceived bias and the damage it
would do the organisation. The Moderators go to considerable lengths to
avoid this happening. Also remember - we are all volunteers!

When something goes wrong and a Tester can't fulfil his/her obligations,
then the members in the Editor/Moderator/Monitor hierachy may get a quick
call asking for a volunteer to fill a gap. Happens occasionally - a few
times a year.

> I guess that is one way to make sure you have mentors, editors, etc, but
> I'm finding that the amount of effort I'm putting out on applications,
> owner reviews, are really not cost effective regarding my time, and I've
> just gone out and bought myself a few things rather than trying to wend
> my way though the inner circle.
Bear in mind that the supply of items to be tested does tend to be quite
cyclical. There is a boom after every Outdoors Recreation Show (in Utah),
which happens twice a year. We try to smooth the cycles out, but are not
that successful.

If you really want a certain itme, it may be better to buy it. The focus of
BGT is on TESTING gear, not giving away freebies. But it is good fun.

Cheers
Roger Caffin
BGT Editor
Sydney, Australia