🚀 go-pugleaf

Tim Ward wrote:
> "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
> news:gs6uqr$aji$1@news.albasani.net...
>> So teh dial up logs are full of ATZ and so on, it says 'CONNECTED' ppp 
>> starts and packets flow..it even says CHAP succeeded..i.e. the name and 
>> password supplied (which everyone says are irrelevant anyway) work.
> 
> Sounds like there is a connection then. Although the username/password are 
> irrelevant for most (or even all) mobile data services (they identify you by 
> IMSI) the phone doesn't know that, and IME of GPRS connections (which I've 
> worked with and debugged at every level) there has to be some successful 
> signalling before anything can seriously believe that the CHAP has 
> succeeded.
> 
> There isn't a real end to end PPP negotiation, by the way, it's done with 
> some signalling messages still in the GSM/UMTS layer three stuff, although 
> it's quite likely to fake up normal PPP negotiation towards the client 
> computer. Only after all this has completed does the phone switch to 
> whatever packet transport it has for the IP. So, if you're getting PPP 
> negotiation complete but no IP packets it sounds like you've got a perfectly 
> good signalling connection but can't get any packet data transported.
> 
> I don't know anything about 3G, but in an area with no 3G coverage I'd 
> expect the dongle to step down to EDGE, and if it can't find that to boring 
> old GPRS.
> 
The three site makes a complete distinction between 2G, 3G and 'mobile 
broadband'

"2G network: gives you voice, text and picture messaging services.
3G network: gives you all of the above, plus video calling and the 
internet on your mobile.
HSDPA network (Mobile Broadband): gives you all 2G and 3G services, plus 
high-speed internet access on your mobile and with your dongle (USB 
modem). "

Now where I am right now has zilch on the map for 'Mobile Broadband'

So I infer from the above that the USB dongle does NOT drop back to 3G/2G.

What I was hoping for was some confirmation that what I was seeing was 
'a HSDPA unit that only found a 2G network' rather than 'you plonker, 
your ppp config sucks'

According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <74odv2F14fgf1U1@mid.individual.net>, at 11:01:06 on Thu, 16 
> Apr 2009, Tim Ward <tim@brettward.co.uk> remarked:
> 
>> I don't know anything about 3G,
> 
> Really? I'm sure you do.
> 
>> but in an area with no 3G coverage I'd expect the dongle to step down 
>> to EDGE, and if it can't find that to boring old GPRS.
> 
> I have a "3" dongle, and step-down is indeed what happens.
> 

Well their website seems to say otherwise.

Which make of dongle?

Anyway, is internet possible over just 2G?

> The feature I miss the most (it's greyed out rather than completely 
> missing, on my PC) is the ability to say "Please use only 2/2.5/3 G at 
> the moment".
> 
> The "3" network does not preserve a connection when roaming between the 
> various provisions, which is a problem if you've set up a tunnel when in 
> 2G and are reasonably happy with it, until the network decides to chuck 
> you off because it got a sniff of something faster.

In message <H76dna-iLKWLAnrUnZ2dnUVZ8rJi4p2d@posted.plusnet>, at 
22:11:50 on Thu, 16 Apr 2009, John Rumm <see.my.signature@nowhere.null> 
remarked:
>>> (1) dial-up data call
>>  That worked on 1G phones too (assuming 1G = analogue). For some 
>>reason I  think 4.8K was the optimal speed.
>
>On ETACS the speed would presumably have been adaptive - as on an 
>ordinary phone line.

And 4.8k was the best bet. Faster than 2.4k and also faster overall than 
a retrying 9.6K.

>Straight GSM dial up data was/is 9.6 kbps - ok for text email but not 
>much else these days...

I spent a week last New Year using it for email and usenet... Couldn't 
get GPRS working at all. Never worked out if it was a configuration or 
subscription issue.
-- 
Roland Perry

>Now where I am right now has zilch on the map for 'Mobile Broadband'
>
>So I infer from the above that the USB dongle does NOT drop back to 3G/2G.
>
>What I was hoping for was some confirmation that what I was seeing was 
>'a HSDPA unit that only found a 2G network' rather than 'you plonker, 
>your ppp config sucks'
>
>According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.
>

Theres a fair old bit of South Cambs and North Essex thats at a fair old
altitude and that suffers from poor 2G coverage, voice and data, let
alone anything else. 

Its more to do with the number of likely subs and the costs of base
station implementation. If you live near a main road or have a motorway
passing nearby then you'll more likely to be much better covered;)..
-- 
Tony Sayer

The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:

> So, can you confirm that 3 will do some sort of IP over 2G?

If it doesn't it will be very odd.

> If I could but find the right magic spell?

Yes. Did they not provide any form of documentation?

Are you actually using wvdial and kppp? There are numerous scripts
floating around the web for configuring various USB dongles, most of
them seem to require wvdial/kppp/perl.

There are some AT codes that might help you diagnose what the stuff is
going on.

AT+COPS? - Should show you the network provider that you're connected
to.

AT+COPS=? - Should show you all the available network providers.

AT+CSQ - Should show you signal quality information.

AT&V - Should list all the supported AT commands.

What I suspect you need to do is to provide your PIN, you didn't mention
if you do this or not but AFAIK most network providers required a PIN
before permitting access to the network.

You should see something like this if things are working:

CONNECT
--> Carrier detected. Starting PPP immediately.
--> Starting pppd at <date>
--> pid of pppd: nnnn
--> Using interface ppp0
--> pppd: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyUSB0
--> pppd: CHAP authentication succeeded
--> local IP address xx.xx.xx.xx
--> remote IP address xx.xx.xx.xx.xx
--> primary DNS address xx.xx.xx.xx
--> secondary DNS address xx.xx.xx.xx

Usually the easiest route with these things is to find someone who has
done it successfully with that dongle/network.

Setting up ppp and wvdial is a pain at the best of times, it's even
worse when you have to struggle with a network provider failing to give
you all the information that you need. I found Orange tech support to be
really helpful when setting up 3G/Edge via my mobile phone. I found
Vodafone to be complete shite when trying to set up the 3G dongle.

In article <74pdmbF14kh6vU1@mid.individual.net>, Tim Ward
<tim@brettward.co.uk> scribeth thus
>"The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>news:gs7v4l$mbs$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>
>> The three site makes a complete distinction between 2G, 3G and 'mobile 
>> broadband'
>>
>> "2G network: gives you voice, text and picture messaging services.
>>
>> According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>> to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.
>
>So, "internet on your mobile" is listed as needing 3G as minimum, and you 
>can only get 2G, and you can't get internet.. Sounds as if they're failing 
>to deliver exactly as promised then?
>

The Vodafone dongle I've got does fall back to GPRS which does give
Internet connectivity, but it does it a lot out in the sticks.

Mind you the throughput in general isn't that wonderful even when it is
running full 3G

Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...

Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..
-- 
Tony Sayer

In message <20090416231059.75f0e81d@peterson.fenrir.org.uk>, at 23:10:59 
on Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Brian Morrison <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> remarked:

>> The feature I miss the most (it's greyed out rather than completely
>> missing, on my PC) is the ability to say "Please use only 2/2.5/3 G at
>> the moment".
>
>Because if you move off a 3G cell onto Orange's network, 3 get charged
>for the data/call and hence they didn't allow it.

They allow it if you are out of range of a 3G cell.

>They used to check
>the IMEI of the phone you were using and block it if it was 2G only.

This is about 3-supplied dongles.

>Their own kit has the network mode menu disabled for this reason.

It's the reason I've always supposed. Has the danger that it puts people 
off using them at all.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <wYJELaf4N65JFAhZ@perry.co.uk>, at 22:30:32 on Thu, 16 Apr 
2009, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk> remarked:
>>Straight GSM dial up data was/is 9.6 kbps - ok for text email but not 
>>much else these days...
>
>I spent a week last New Year using it for email and usenet... Couldn't 
>get GPRS working at all. Never worked out if it was a configuration or 
>subscription issue.

To avoid conflation with other subthreads - this was using a Virgin 
phone. The 3-dongle was completely inert.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <ok55X9C6465JFwwX@bancom.co.uk>, at 23:16:26 on Thu, 16 Apr 
2009, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
>roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
>reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
>
>Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..

I'm surprised by that. I get good throughput on my 3-dongle when in an 
area covered by 3G - even if it's only "1-bar". At home I get a full 
"5-bars" and the base can't be closer than 800 metres.
-- 
Roland Perry

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:30:45 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>  
wrote:

> In message <ok55X9C6465JFwwX@bancom.co.uk>, at 23:16:26 on Thu, 16 Apr  
> 2009, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>> Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
>> roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
>> reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
>>
>> Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..
>
> I'm surprised by that. I get good throughput on my 3-dongle when in an  
> area covered by 3G - even if it's only "1-bar". At home I get a full  
> "5-bars" and the base can't be closer than 800 metres.


It's very load dependent though, the data rate per lobe is similar to the  
maximum rate so as soon as multiple people use it the rate collapses, I  
can get 7.2MB in Kings Cross station in the afternoon, barely a connection  
during rush hour.

Paul Rudin wrote:
> internet is *possible* over carrier pigeon... whether you can find an
> isp that'll play ball is another question ;)

Ah yes,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers

http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149

and the later amendment
http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549

And a list of them all ...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_RFC
-- 
Adrian C

tony sayer wrote:
> In article <74pdmbF14kh6vU1@mid.individual.net>, Tim Ward
> <tim@brettward.co.uk> scribeth thus
>> "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>> news:gs7v4l$mbs$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> The three site makes a complete distinction between 2G, 3G and 'mobile 
>>> broadband'
>>>
>>> "2G network: gives you voice, text and picture messaging services.
>>>
>>> According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>>> to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.
>> So, "internet on your mobile" is listed as needing 3G as minimum, and you 
>> can only get 2G, and you can't get internet.. Sounds as if they're failing 
>> to deliver exactly as promised then?
>>
> 
> The Vodafone dongle I've got does fall back to GPRS which does give
> Internet connectivity, but it does it a lot out in the sticks.
> 
> Mind you the throughput in general isn't that wonderful even when it is
> running full 3G
> 
> Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
> roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
> reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
> 
> Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..

Well I only need to run a couple of apps.

Custom sales entry and credit card validator to e.g. paypal.

Worst case page on the sales screen is about 16k bytes.

Sure we could adblock paypal and get that down too.
256kbps would be fine. 30-40kbps would be usable. 9600 bps probably not.

In message <20090416233247.2dfc926a@peterson.fenrir.org.uk>, at 23:32:47 
on Thu, 16 Apr 2009, Brian Morrison <bdm@fenrir.org.uk> remarked:

>>
>> >> The feature I miss the most (it's greyed out rather than completely
>> >> missing, on my PC) is the ability to say "Please use only 2/2.5/3 G at
>> >> the moment".
>> >
>> >Because if you move off a 3G cell onto Orange's network, 3 get charged
>> >for the data/call and hence they didn't allow it.
>>
>> They allow it if you are out of range of a 3G cell.
>
>But not if you just want to force 2G, which was what I was trying to
>point out.

Indeed, that's where I came in.

>> >They used to check
>> >the IMEI of the phone you were using and block it if it was 2G only.
>>
>> This is about 3-supplied dongles.
>>
>> >Their own kit has the network mode menu disabled for this reason.
>>
>> It's the reason I've always supposed. Has the danger that it puts people
>> off using them at all.
>
>It can, but then they have a lot of spare capacity and hence attractive
>pricing, you just need to do some research and go into using it with
>your eyes open.

Yes, I'm afraid to say I do stay with them because of the price - 
although usual mobile phone industry "confusion pricing" reigns, with 
different plans leap-frogging one another all the time.
-- 
Roland Perry

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember "Tim Ward" <tim@brettward.co.uk>
saying something like:

>> The "3" network does not preserve a connection when roaming between the 
>> various provisions
>
>That sounds a bit cheap and nasty to me. I'm sure the GPRS and 3G specs must 
>have been designed to allow an operator to get that sort of thing right if 
>they felt like bothering.

The Vodafone UI certainly does that. I've been using 3G or GPRS as the
signal varies locally according to weather and foliage, for years. It
doesn't often need to drop to GPRS, but sometimes I've found it
advantageous to lock it on to GPRS if the weather's particularly claggy
and it wants to go 3G hunting.

Steve Firth wrote:
> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> 
>> So, can you confirm that 3 will do some sort of IP over 2G?
> 
> If it doesn't it will be very odd.
> 
>> If I could but find the right magic spell?
> 
> Yes. Did they not provide any form of documentation?
> 
Not that was kept by the owner. Its one of those modems that is also 
mass storage, so when you 'plug in in yer pc' it installs its own 
software or summat.

The latest linux kernel recognises it and after 20 seconds tells it to 
stop pretending to be a flash drive and act like a modem.

> Are you actually using wvdial and kppp? There are numerous scripts
> floating around the web for configuring various USB dongles, most of
> them seem to require wvdial/kppp/perl.
> 
I have used wvdial gnome-ppp and pppd bare.

> There are some AT codes that might help you diagnose what the stuff is
> going on.
> 
> AT+COPS? - Should show you the network provider that you're connected
> to.
> 
> AT+COPS=? - Should show you all the available network providers.
> 
> AT+CSQ - Should show you signal quality information.
> 
> AT&V - Should list all the supported AT commands.
> 

Thats worth a crack.

> What I suspect you need to do is to provide your PIN, you didn't mention
> if you do this or not but AFAIK most network providers required a PIN
> before permitting access to the network.
> 
This has a sim card in it.

> You should see something like this if things are working:
> 
> CONNECT
> --> Carrier detected. Starting PPP immediately.
> --> Starting pppd at <date>
> --> pid of pppd: nnnn
> --> Using interface ppp0
> --> pppd: Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/ttyUSB0
> --> pppd: CHAP authentication succeeded
That's as far as I get.
Twice. Two chap authentications.

> --> local IP address xx.xx.xx.xx
> --> remote IP address xx.xx.xx.xx.xx
> --> primary DNS address xx.xx.xx.xx
> --> secondary DNS address xx.xx.xx.xx
> 

That's what never happens. Plus it shouls set default route.

> Usually the easiest route with these things is to find someone who has
> done it successfully with that dongle/network.
> 
Have done. Copied the exact.

> Setting up ppp and wvdial is a pain at the best of times, it's even
> worse when you have to struggle with a network provider failing to give
> you all the information that you need. I found Orange tech support to be
> really helpful when setting up 3G/Edge via my mobile phone. I found
> Vodafone to be complete shite when trying to set up the 3G dongle.

Yeah. We phoned them (three) up 'use the same name and password you log 
in to your computer with'

In fact, thios is what is recommended.

[Dialer Defaults]
Init1 = ATZ
Init2 = ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
Init3 = ATZ
Init4 = ATE0V1&D2&C1S0=0+IFC=2,2
Init5 = AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk";
Password = three
Check Def Route = on
Phone = *99#
Auto DNS = on
Modem Type = Analog Modem
Stupid Mode = 1
Baud = 460800
New PPPD = yes
Dial Command = ATDT
Modem = /dev/ttyUSB0
ISDN = 0
Username = three
Check DNS = on


Wvdial shows this..

  wvdial
--> WvDial: Internet dialer version 1.60
--> Cannot get information for serial port.
--> Initializing modem.
--> Sending: ATZ
ATZ
OK
--> Sending: ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
ATQ0 V1 E1 S0=0 &C1 &D2 +FCLASS=0
OK
--> Sending: ATZ
ATZ
OK
--> Sending: ATE0V1&D2&C1S0=0+IFC=2,2
ATE0V1&D2&C1S0=0+IFC=2,2
OK
--> Sending: AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk";
OK
--> Modem initialized.
--> Sending: ATDT*99#
--> Waiting for carrier.
CONNECT
--> Carrier detected.  Starting PPP immediately.
--> Starting pppd at Fri Apr 17 07:59:40 2009
--> Pid of pppd: 27911
--> pppd: [08]��[08]X��[08]x��[08]���[08]
--> Using interface ppp0
--> pppd: [08]��[08]X��[08]x��[08]���[08]
..and then just that, endlessly till it hangs up.

In article <dk9gu4d5sfap58q37ljbej0gur18vjkopg@4ax.com>, Grimly
Curmudgeon <grimly4REMOVE@REMOVEgmail.com> scribeth thus
>We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
>drugs began to take hold. I remember "Tim Ward" <tim@brettward.co.uk>
>saying something like:
>
>>> The "3" network does not preserve a connection when roaming between the 
>>> various provisions
>>
>>That sounds a bit cheap and nasty to me. I'm sure the GPRS and 3G specs must 
>>have been designed to allow an operator to get that sort of thing right if 
>>they felt like bothering.
>
>The Vodafone UI certainly does that. I've been using 3G or GPRS as the
>signal varies locally according to weather and foliage,

That has a much larger effect than many realise especially at 1800 and
2100 MHz...

> for years. It
>doesn't often need to drop to GPRS, but sometimes I've found it
>advantageous to lock it on to GPRS if the weather's particularly claggy
>and it wants to go 3G hunting.

Much the same with microwave and wi-fi units set them to what you need
rather than what they think they can do...
-- 
Tony Sayer


                

In article <pFSS8QuVG75JFATD@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<roland@perry.co.uk> scribeth thus
>In message <ok55X9C6465JFwwX@bancom.co.uk>, at 23:16:26 on Thu, 16 Apr 
>2009, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
>>roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
>>reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
>>
>>Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..
>
>I'm surprised by that. I get good throughput on my 3-dongle when in an 
>area covered by 3G - even if it's only "1-bar". At home I get a full 
>"5-bars" and the base can't be closer than 800 metres.

Is that "3" the firm or 3G in general?..


-- 
Tony Sayer

tony sayer wrote:
> In article <74pdmbF14kh6vU1@mid.individual.net>, Tim Ward
> <tim@brettward.co.uk> scribeth thus
>> "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>> news:gs7v4l$mbs$1@news.albasani.net...
>>> The three site makes a complete distinction between 2G, 3G and 'mobile 
>>> broadband'
>>>
>>> "2G network: gives you voice, text and picture messaging services.
>>>
>>> According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>>> to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.
>> So, "internet on your mobile" is listed as needing 3G as minimum, and you 
>> can only get 2G, and you can't get internet.. Sounds as if they're failing 
>> to deliver exactly as promised then?
>>
> 
> The Vodafone dongle I've got does fall back to GPRS which does give
> Internet connectivity, but it does it a lot out in the sticks.
> 
> Mind you the throughput in general isn't that wonderful even when it is
> running full 3G
> 
> Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
> roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
> reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
> 
> Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..

I was puzzled why my 3G phone would switch back and 
forth between 3G and GSM modes (for voice or data), 
even in a strong signal area.  I found an explanation 
of "cell breathing" which said it was a network 
response to congestion.

In article <gs98os$k4c$1@news.albasani.net>, The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
>tony sayer wrote:
>> In article <74pdmbF14kh6vU1@mid.individual.net>, Tim Ward
>> <tim@brettward.co.uk> scribeth thus
>>> "The Natural Philosopher" <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote in message 
>>> news:gs7v4l$mbs$1@news.albasani.net...
>>>> The three site makes a complete distinction between 2G, 3G and 'mobile 
>>>> broadband'
>>>>
>>>> "2G network: gives you voice, text and picture messaging services.
>>>>
>>>> According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>>>> to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.
>>> So, "internet on your mobile" is listed as needing 3G as minimum, and you 
>>> can only get 2G, and you can't get internet.. Sounds as if they're failing 
>>> to deliver exactly as promised then?
>>>
>> 
>> The Vodafone dongle I've got does fall back to GPRS which does give
>> Internet connectivity, but it does it a lot out in the sticks.
>> 
>> Mind you the throughput in general isn't that wonderful even when it is
>> running full 3G
>> 
>> Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
>> roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
>> reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
>> 
>> Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..
>
>Well I only need to run a couple of apps.
>
>Custom sales entry and credit card validator to e.g. paypal.
>
>Worst case page on the sales screen is about 16k bytes.
>
>Sure we could adblock paypal and get that down too.
>256kbps would be fine. 30-40kbps would be usable. 9600 bps probably not.

Sounds like GPRS would be the one for that but then again there're
taking an ever increasing load which will reduce the throughput unless
the networks are -really- increasing capacity..
-- 
Tony Sayer


                

In article <op.ush3zscahaghkf@lucy>, Duncan Wood <nntpnews@dmx512.co.uk>
scribeth thus
>On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:30:45 +0100, Roland Perry <roland@perry.co.uk>  
>wrote:
>
>> In message <ok55X9C6465JFwwX@bancom.co.uk>, at 23:16:26 on Thu, 16 Apr  
>> 2009, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>> Here where I live some 800 metres from a Voda base station, a proper
>>> roof mounted one;(, not one of they little pole mounted jobbies, the
>>> reception downstairs often falls over to GPRS rates...
>>>
>>> Not as good as its puffed up to be;(..
>>
>> I'm surprised by that. I get good throughput on my 3-dongle when in an  
>> area covered by 3G - even if it's only "1-bar". At home I get a full  
>> "5-bars" and the base can't be closer than 800 metres.
>
>
>It's very load dependent though, the data rate per lobe is similar to the  
>maximum rate so as soon as multiple people use it the rate collapses, I  
>can get 7.2MB in Kings Cross station in the afternoon, 

Good for you, never seen that around here (Trumpington)..

>barely a connection  
>during rush hour.

Which makes me wonder if they'll really have the capacity to cope with
those sort of loads..
-- 
Tony Sayer

"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.co.uk> wrote in message 
news:8rG33tyIcC6JFAbZ@perry.co.uk...

> Yes, I'm afraid to say I do stay with them because of the price - although 
> usual mobile phone industry "confusion pricing" reigns, with different 
> plans leap-frogging one another all the time.

Three do an easy to understan plan.
You buy the dongle for �100 and you get 12G to use over 12 months.
I am using one to run remote CCTV ATM. 

In message <gs9f9o$q7s$1@news.datemas.de>, at 09:40:18 on Fri, 17 Apr 
2009, "dennis@home" <dennis@killspam.kicks-ass.net> remarked:
>> Yes, I'm afraid to say I do stay with them because of the price - 
>>although  usual mobile phone industry "confusion pricing" reigns, with 
>>different  plans leap-frogging one another all the time.
>
>Three do an easy to understan plan.
>You buy the dongle for �100 and you get 12G to use over 12 months.

That's less than half the price it was just over a year ago (then it was 
�99 for the dongle plus �10/month|1Gig). In the mean time other networks 
have all been jockeying their prices.

Meanwhile, anyone want a Vodafone GPRS PC-card? Never used, BNIB.
-- 
Roland Perry

In message <eNZkdNB3yD6JFw9X@bancom.co.uk>, at 09:24:23 on Fri, 17 Apr 
2009, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> remarked:
>>I get good throughput on my 3-dongle when in an
>>area covered by 3G - even if it's only "1-bar". At home I get a full
>>"5-bars" and the base can't be closer than 800 metres.
>
>Is that "3" the firm or 3G in general?..

The firm.
-- 
Roland Perry

In article <op.usg6ixxjhaghkf@lucy>, Duncan Wood <nntpnews@dmx512.co.uk> wrote:
>On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 11:27:24 +0100, Adrian <toomany2cvs@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> gurgled happily, sounding
>> much like they were saying:
>>
>>> This got me puzzled for a long time, till I looked at the coverage map
>>> of Three, and discovered it was only 2G or 3G, not mobile broadband,
>>> here.
>>
>> Umm, what - other than 3G - are you expecting for "mobile broadband"?
>
>
>Dependent on configuration upto 7.2M instead of 384K.

I can confirm that the 3 devices and service support HSDPA.

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember The Natural Philosopher
<tnp@invalid.invalid> saying something like:

>According to their map, I can at best get 2G, although I am at (relative 
>to other places nearby) a pretty decent altitude.

According to my ISP's map I'm out of 3G coverage and have been since I
started. I use an external 9dBi antenna on a pole approx 25' high and
the signal skims the treetops to the cell tower approx 4 miles away with
a hump in the middle. A better antenna would increase the distance.
Look at Poynting for a decent Yagi, or www.thiecom.de

Duncan Wood wrote:
> It's very load dependent though, the data rate per lobe is similar to the  
> maximum rate so as soon as multiple people use it the rate collapses, I  
> can get 7.2MB in Kings Cross station in the afternoon, barely a connection  
> during rush hour.

Couldn't even get a bloody cell, stuck in the seven-hour tailback on the
westbound A14 after an elderly couple decided to do a spot of demolition
on the Newmarket services:

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_newmarket/displayarticle.asp?id=408745

Jon
-- 
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
  with 'green-lines'.

Tim Ward wrote:
> it does rather look like one of those areas of GSM that only works because 
> people on both ends of the protocol happen to have picked up the same 
> folklore.

...or the base station implementers got their end done first, and
everyone else used it as a conformance standard.  Comes to the same
thing, in the end.

Jon
-- 
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
  with 'green-lines'.

Brian Morrison wrote:
> I know someone that works for Nokia's 3G core software team. Every six
> months they provide a new release to the networks, each one is full of
> special code to deal with the latest "don't implement the spec
> properly" phones, some of which worked on the previous firmware release
> for the phone but have been broken in the new one. Many of these phones
> are also made by Nokia, but of course the software in that case is
> written by a different division.

*chuckle*  I believe that!  It's a bit of a shame that the big wireless
manufs can't do a joined-up design approach.  Nokia are by no means
alone.  I've heard similar of others (no names, no pack drill).

Still, I was really referring to first implementation rather than the
present situation, but I know that there are bodges at every level in
every type of wireless kit now.  All hanging together with string and
sealing wax.

Jon
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SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
  with 'green-lines'.

Adrian C <email@here.invalid> writes:

> Paul Rudin wrote:
>> internet is *possible* over carrier pigeon... whether you can find an
>> isp that'll play ball is another question ;)
>
> Ah yes,
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_over_Avian_Carriers
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc1149
>
> and the later amendment
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2549
>
> And a list of them all ...
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Fools%27_Day_RFC

I wonder if Phorm have speically trained harrier hawks to intercept the
pigeons and read their payload? :)

Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
> 
> > However this suggests that 'mobile broadband' SIMs don't work in 2G areas,
> > but normal phone SIMs do:
> > http://www.mail-archive.com/ubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com/msg1210444.html
> > ...which is nothing to do with the dongle.
> 
> HSDPA dongles  that I have used work perfectly will in 2G areas, but
> they fall back to GPRS, so they work but work slowly. Depending on the
> provider/dongle you may need to run the configuration software to select
> GPRS but there's usually a setting to prefer 3G and fall back to GPRS
> when 3G isn't available.

Careful!  There are two separate issues here:

1.  The ability of the dongle hardware to fallback
1a. The ability of the network-supplied dongle driver to fallback
2.  The network letting things fallback

1 is very common... I doubt there are any HSPA dongles supplied without
GPRS/UMTS capability.

2 however is completely at the whim of the network, and networks do strange
things every day to protect their revenues.  It's quite conceivable that the
network doesn't want you to fallback and has disabled it in some way.  They
may have implemented this using driver 1a, in which case you can probably
work around it.  If it's in the network itself, it's trickier.

So it's only valid to consider HSDPA dongles /on the Three network/ if you
want to get the full picture.  HSDPA dongles on other networks can only
prove property 1.

Theo

Theo Markettos <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

> Careful!

Why? Is it going to explode?

(mumble) Why are people at Fenland Polytechnical Institute so hysterical
about things?

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Jon Green <jonsg@deadspam.com>
saying something like:

>Couldn't even get a bloody cell, stuck in the seven-hour tailback on the
>westbound A14 after an elderly couple decided to do a spot of demolition
>on the Newmarket services:
>
>http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_newmarket/displayarticle.asp?id=408745

"He was a member of St Andrew's Church in Gorleston where he was also an
active volunteer with the Memory Club."

Memory Club? Pity he forgot how to drive.

"Jon Green" <jonsg@deadspam.com> wrote in message 
news:S8CdnTE1c7L-_3XUnZ2dnUVZ8u-dnZ2d@bt.com...
> Tim Ward wrote:
>> it does rather look like one of those areas of GSM that only works 
>> because
>> people on both ends of the protocol happen to have picked up the same
>> folklore.
>
> ...or the base station implementers got their end done first, and
> everyone else used it as a conformance standard.  Comes to the same
> thing, in the end.

A common approach used to be for the network implementors to make sure their 
stuff worked with bog standard Nokia phones ...

... and then go into panic mode when confronted with something which doesn't 
quite understand the specs the same way, and sometimes not exactly what you 
might call correctly, such as newbie smartphone makers.

-- 
Tim Ward - posting as an individual unless otherwise clear
Brett Ward Limited - www.brettward.co.uk
Cambridge Accommodation Notice Board - www.brettward.co.uk/canb
Cambridge City Councillor

Tim Ward wrote:
> "Jon Green" <jonsg@deadspam.com> wrote in message 
> news:S8CdnTE1c7L-_3XUnZ2dnUVZ8u-dnZ2d@bt.com...
>> Tim Ward wrote:
>>> it does rather look like one of those areas of GSM that only works 
>>> because
>>> people on both ends of the protocol happen to have picked up the same
>>> folklore.
>> ...or the base station implementers got their end done first, and
>> everyone else used it as a conformance standard.  Comes to the same
>> thing, in the end.
> 
> A common approach used to be for the network implementors to make sure their 
> stuff worked with bog standard Nokia phones ...
> 
> ... and then go into panic mode when confronted with something which doesn't 
> quite understand the specs the same way, and sometimes not exactly what you 
> might call correctly, such as newbie smartphone makers.
> 
No different from early Interop then. Nobodys stack or application 
talking to anybody else's..and bit by bit the RFCS grew, and things 
started to work...

I think the issues in this case are that most software expects a fairly 
rapid IPC response during negotiation, but the way the network works, 
its a shade delayed. So instead of simply doing nothing and risking a 
timeout, they juts keep repeating NACKS. until a real connection is 
established. The price you pay for making something that doesn't do 
dial, carrier or whatever, act like a modem ..

The Natural Philosopher wrote:
> Cos I am getting this thing to work under Linux. Its a qualcomm chipset 
> MF622 from ZTE provided by Three..
>   > So teh dial up logs are full of ATZ and so on, it says 'CONNECTED' ppp
> starts and packets flow..it even says CHAP succeeded..i.e. the name and 
> password supplied (which everyone says are irrelevant anyway) work.
> 
> BUT I don't get any IP, or DHCP stuff and after a couple of minutes the 
> thing 'hangs up'

Entered *99# for the telephone number?

http://www.solwiseforum.co.uk/downloads/files/connecting-3g-supplier.pdf

-- 
Adrian C

Adrian C wrote:
> Entered *99# for the telephone number?
> 
Whoops, you have ...

> http://www.solwiseforum.co.uk/downloads/files/connecting-3g-supplier.pdf
> 


-- 
Adrian C

On 16 Apr, 10:47, The Natural Philosopher <t...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
> Cos I am getting this thing to work under Linux. Its a qualcomm chipset
> MF622 from ZTE provided by Three..

> This got me puzzled for a long time, till I looked at the coverage map
> of Three, and discovered it was only 2G or 3G, not mobile broadband, here.

Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
"fuck off" and disconnects you.

Ian

The Real Doctor <ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
> Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
> Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
> connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
> "fuck off" and disconnects you.

Is this the network recognising the dongle IMEI, or recognising the SIM? 
I've bought a Mobile Broadband addon using my phone (99p Flat12 SIM from
eBay, so not a specific data or anything SIM) and it 'works' on Orange 2G,
even using it as a modem.

If they're blocking the SIM and you're on PAYG, the answer would seem to
buy a phone SIM and use it in the dongle.  You can buy just the same addons
as the Mobile Broadband SIM (in fact you can buy more, because you can buy
the data-on-my-phone Internet addon which apparently they block from
dongles).  I think the plain phone SIM should support HSDPA so there
shouldn't be any speed difference.

Theo

In article <jii*fAKEs@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>The Real Doctor <ian.groups@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
>> Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
>> connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
>> "fuck off" and disconnects you.
>
>Is this the network recognising the dongle IMEI, or recognising the SIM? 
>I've bought a Mobile Broadband addon using my phone (99p Flat12 SIM from
>eBay, so not a specific data or anything SIM) and it 'works' on Orange 2G,
>even using it as a modem.
>
>If they're blocking the SIM and you're on PAYG, the answer would seem to
>buy a phone SIM and use it in the dongle.  You can buy just the same addons
>as the Mobile Broadband SIM (in fact you can buy more, because you can buy
>the data-on-my-phone Internet addon which apparently they block from
>dongles).  I think the plain phone SIM should support HSDPA so there
>shouldn't be any speed difference.
>
>Theo

To that end anyone recommend a phone, pref not on the "3" network, that
can be used as a modem for connecting to a PC rather than a stand alone
dongle?..
-- 
Tony Sayer

In message 
<3c34eead-e922-45fa-a649-0c4ce05894cd@e21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at 
16:24:41 on Fri, 17 Apr 2009, The Real Doctor 
<ian.groups@btinternet.com> remarked:
>> This got me puzzled for a long time, till I looked at the coverage map
>> of Three, and discovered it was only 2G or 3G, not mobile broadband, here.
>
>Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
>Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
>connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
>"fuck off" and disconnects you.

Fallback seems to work OK on my "3" dongle.
-- 
Roland Perry

tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
> To that end anyone recommend a phone, pref not on the "3" network, that
> can be used as a modem for connecting to a PC rather than a stand alone
> dongle?..

If you can cope with plain 3G/UMTS, the Nokia 7600 is cheap secondhand and
dead easy to unlock (but I've never actually used one).  I don't know a good
HSDPA phone.  Of course if you have a phone you might then decide you want
to use the phoney features and want a slightly better model.

Theo

In article <lii*tOMEs@news.chiark.greenend.org.uk>, Theo Markettos
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> scribeth thus
>tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote:
>> To that end anyone recommend a phone, pref not on the "3" network, that
>> can be used as a modem for connecting to a PC rather than a stand alone
>> dongle?..
>
>If you can cope with plain 3G/UMTS, the Nokia 7600 is cheap secondhand and
>dead easy to unlock (but I've never actually used one).  I don't know a good
>HSDPA phone.  Of course if you have a phone you might then decide you want
>to use the phoney features and want a slightly better model.
>
>Theo

Thanks Theo  .. noted...
-- 
Tony Sayer


                

Roland Perry wrote:
> In message 
> <3c34eead-e922-45fa-a649-0c4ce05894cd@e21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at 
> 16:24:41 on Fri, 17 Apr 2009, The Real Doctor 
> <ian.groups@btinternet.com> remarked:
>>> This got me puzzled for a long time, till I looked at the coverage map
>>> of Three, and discovered it was only 2G or 3G, not mobile broadband, 
>>> here.
>>
>> Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
>> Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
>> connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
>> "fuck off" and disconnects you.
> 
> Fallback seems to work OK on my "3" dongle.
to 2G?
or to 3G?

On 18 Apr, 01:08, Theo Markettos <theom+n...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
wrote:
> The Real Doctor <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
> > Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
> > connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
> > "fuck off" and disconnects you.
>
> Is this the network recognising the dongle IMEI, or recognising the SIM?
> I've bought a Mobile Broadband addon using my phone (99p Flat12 SIM from
> eBay, so not a specific data or anything SIM) and it 'works' on Orange 2G,
> even using it as a modem.

I'll guess that it's the dongle which gets banned, not the SIM. My
Nokia 6120c on Three does data no problems via GPRS - ie on Orange.

Ian

On 18 Apr, 10:25, tony sayer <t...@bancom.co.uk> wrote:

> To that end anyone recommend a phone, pref not on the "3" network, that
> can be used as a modem for connecting to a PC rather than a stand alone
> dongle?..

Nokia 6120c works fine as a modem.

Ian

On 18 Apr, 11:04, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <3c34eead-e922-45fa-a649-0c4ce0589...@e21g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, at
> 16:24:41 on Fri, 17 Apr 2009, The Real Doctor
> <ian.gro...@btinternet.com> remarked:
>
> >> This got me puzzled for a long time, till I looked at the coverage map
> >> of Three, and discovered it was only 2G or 3G, not mobile broadband, here.
>
> >Unlike Three phones, their mobile broadband doesn't roam onto the
> >Orange 2G network. So when Orange see you trying to do a data
> >connection their system simply says - to use the technical term -
> >"fuck off" and disconnects you.
>
> Fallback seems to work OK on my "3" dongle.

Very odd, because as far as I can see it shouldn't. I'd keep quiet
about it, if I were you ...

Ian

In message <gsd8l2$tai$2@news.albasani.net>, at 20:11:30 on Sat, 18 Apr 
2009, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> remarked:
>>  Fallback seems to work OK on my "3" dongle.
>to 2G?
>or to 3G?

I'm 99% sure it's to 2.5G, but I'll have to do some tests.

My recollection is that while it doesn't work at all on the train to 
London most of the time, there are some stations in the Market 
Harborough area where I can get a sniff of something that's slow and 
doesn't come up as "3G". But next time I'll pay more attention to the 
display. There's also the issue of "dropping tunnels" which doesn't 
happen when it switches from 3G to HSDPA, so surely it must be switching 
from 3G to 2G (or more precisely 2.5G).

I've been trying to find something that documents the LED - surprisingly 
difficult to find. Seems to be:

Steady Blue - HSDPA
Flashing Blue - 3G
??? - 2.5G

I can't check it at the moment as I get 5-bars of HSDPA at home !
-- 
Roland Perry

Grimly Curmudgeon wrote:
> We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
> drugs began to take hold. I remember Jon Green <jonsg@deadspam.com>
> saying something like:
> 
>> Couldn't even get a bloody cell, stuck in the seven-hour tailback on the
>> westbound A14 after an elderly couple decided to do a spot of demolition
>> on the Newmarket services:
>>
>> http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/cn_news_newmarket/displayarticle.asp?id=408745
> 
> "He was a member of St Andrew's Church in Gorleston where he was also an
> active volunteer with the Memory Club."
> 
> Memory Club? Pity he forgot how to drive.

"I remember a petrol station somewhere around her*SPLAT*"

Jon
-- 
SPAM BLOCK IN USE! To reply in email, replace 'deadspam'
  with 'green-lines'.

On 2009-04-16, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
> So teh dial up logs are full of ATZ and so on, it says 'CONNECTED' ppp 
> starts and packets flow..it even says CHAP succeeded..i.e. the name and 
> password supplied (which everyone says are irrelevant anyway) work.
>
> BUT I don't get any IP, or DHCP stuff and after a couple of minutes the 
> thing 'hangs up'

You should try to get verbose logging turned on so you can see
the PPP transactions in the log.  I've included a successful
3 log in below.  Note that I did without authentication (the
network wanted to do PAP, my PPP client declined) but the
network didn't care.

The interface and DNS addresses come from PPP IPCP configuration.
It appears to me that the network just does the LCP configuration
mechanically (that would include PAP/CHAP) and doesn't actually
decide whether they are going to let you on until you get to
IPCP negotiations, this based on the 6 second pregnant pause after
the first IPCP configuration request is sent where the network
appears to be "thinking" about it.


> Now I naively had thought that when it said 'carrier present' it meant 
> it had an end to end connection to whatever it talks to. But I am 
> wondering if in fact it just fakes all that locally, and the 
> password/CHAP stuff, says its connected, goes looking for a mobile 
> broadband signal, doesn't find it and eventually times out and issues a 
> 'lost carrier' signal back to the pppd daemon.

It isn't faking the PPP locally (as, in the dongle), and it has
whatever radio signal it is going to use for the connection well
before it gets to this point.  It does seem, however, that the
authentication is meaningless and the start of IP configuration
is when the network actually decides whether it is going to let you
on or not.  In your case it might have decided not to let you on,
or something else might have failed.  A verbose log might give you
some hints.

Dennis Ferguson

16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT\13
16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
16:18:56 : Initializing phone: AT&F0&D2&C1E0V1W1S95=47
16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT&F0&D2&C1E0V1W1S95=47\13
16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
16:18:56 : Initializing PDP context: AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk"
16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk"\13
16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
16:18:56 : Dialing: ATD*99***1#
16:18:56 : CCLWrite : ATD*99***1#\13
16:18:56 : Waiting for connection
16:18:56 : CCLMatched : CONNECT\13\10
16:18:56 : Connection established
16:18:59 : CCLExit: 0
16:18:59 : Serial connection established.
16:18:59 : using link 0
16:18:59 : Using interface ppp0 
16:18:59 : Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cu.usbmodem411
16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xf79c2595> <pcomp> <accomp>]
16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xf79c2595> <pcomp> <accomp>]
16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <auth pap> <magic 0x3f096d17> <pcomp> <accomp>]
16:19:00 : No auth is possible
16:19:00 : lcp_reqci: returning CONFREJ.
16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfRej id=0x1 <auth pap>]
16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x3f096d18> <pcomp> <accomp>]
16:19:00 : lcp_reqci: returning CONFACK.
16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x3f096d18> <pcomp> <accomp>]
16:19:00 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
16:19:00 : sent [IPV6CP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr fe80::0223:32ff:feb0:f41e>]
16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ProtRej id=0x1 80 57 01 01 00 0e 01 0a 02 23 32 ff fe b0 f4 1e]
16:19:03 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfNak id=0x1 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x2 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfAck id=0x2 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfReq id=0x3 <addr 192.168.100.101>]
16:19:06 : ipcp: returning Configure-ACK
16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfAck id=0x3 <addr 192.168.100.101>]
16:19:06 : ipcp: up
16:19:06 : local  IP address 10.15.137.253
16:19:06 : remote IP address 192.168.100.101
16:19:06 : primary   DNS address 172.31.140.69
16:19:06 : secondary DNS address 172.30.140.69

Dennis Ferguson wrote:
> On 2009-04-16, The Natural Philosopher <tnp@invalid.invalid> wrote:
>> So teh dial up logs are full of ATZ and so on, it says 'CONNECTED' ppp 
>> starts and packets flow..it even says CHAP succeeded..i.e. the name and 
>> password supplied (which everyone says are irrelevant anyway) work.
>>
>> BUT I don't get any IP, or DHCP stuff and after a couple of minutes the 
>> thing 'hangs up'
> 
> You should try to get verbose logging turned on so you can see
> the PPP transactions in the log.  I've included a successful
> 3 log in below.  Note that I did without authentication (the
> network wanted to do PAP, my PPP client declined) but the
> network didn't care.
> 
> The interface and DNS addresses come from PPP IPCP configuration.
> It appears to me that the network just does the LCP configuration
> mechanically (that would include PAP/CHAP) and doesn't actually
> decide whether they are going to let you on until you get to
> IPCP negotiations, this based on the 6 second pregnant pause after
> the first IPCP configuration request is sent where the network
> appears to be "thinking" about it.
> 
> 
>> Now I naively had thought that when it said 'carrier present' it meant 
>> it had an end to end connection to whatever it talks to. But I am 
>> wondering if in fact it just fakes all that locally, and the 
>> password/CHAP stuff, says its connected, goes looking for a mobile 
>> broadband signal, doesn't find it and eventually times out and issues a 
>> 'lost carrier' signal back to the pppd daemon.
> 
> It isn't faking the PPP locally (as, in the dongle), and it has
> whatever radio signal it is going to use for the connection well
> before it gets to this point.  It does seem, however, that the
> authentication is meaningless and the start of IP configuration
> is when the network actually decides whether it is going to let you
> on or not.  In your case it might have decided not to let you on,
> or something else might have failed.  A verbose log might give you
> some hints.
> 

I have a verbose log and posted it.

Basically it refuses IPCP negotiations forever, just issuing 'fake' ones 
which it then rejects.

My conclusion is that although its found (*presumably an Orange 2G) it 
wont do PPP over it.

> Dennis Ferguson
> 
> 16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT\13
> 16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
> 16:18:56 : Initializing phone: AT&F0&D2&C1E0V1W1S95=47
> 16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT&F0&D2&C1E0V1W1S95=47\13
> 16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
> 16:18:56 : Initializing PDP context: AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk"
> 16:18:56 : CCLWrite : AT+CGDCONT=1,"IP","three.co.uk"\13
> 16:18:56 : CCLMatched : OK\13\10
> 16:18:56 : Dialing: ATD*99***1#
> 16:18:56 : CCLWrite : ATD*99***1#\13
> 16:18:56 : Waiting for connection
> 16:18:56 : CCLMatched : CONNECT\13\10
> 16:18:56 : Connection established
> 16:18:59 : CCLExit: 0
> 16:18:59 : Serial connection established.
> 16:18:59 : using link 0
> 16:18:59 : Using interface ppp0 
> 16:18:59 : Connect: ppp0 <--> /dev/cu.usbmodem411
> 16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xf79c2595> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> 16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfAck id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0xf79c2595> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> 16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x1 <asyncmap 0x0> <auth pap> <magic 0x3f096d17> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> 16:19:00 : No auth is possible
> 16:19:00 : lcp_reqci: returning CONFREJ.
> 16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfRej id=0x1 <auth pap>]
> 16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ConfReq id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x3f096d18> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> 16:19:00 : lcp_reqci: returning CONFACK.
> 16:19:00 : sent [LCP ConfAck id=0x2 <asyncmap 0x0> <magic 0x3f096d18> <pcomp> <accomp>]
> 16:19:00 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
> 16:19:00 : sent [IPV6CP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr fe80::0223:32ff:feb0:f41e>]
> 16:19:00 : rcvd [LCP ProtRej id=0x1 80 57 01 01 00 0e 01 0a 02 23 32 ff fe b0 f4 1e]
> 16:19:03 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
> 16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x1 <addr 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns1 0.0.0.0> <ms-dns3 0.0.0.0>]
> 16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfNak id=0x1 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
> 16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfReq id=0x2 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
> 16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfAck id=0x2 <addr 10.15.137.253> <ms-dns1 172.31.140.69> <ms-dns3 172.30.140.69>]
> 16:19:06 : rcvd [IPCP ConfReq id=0x3 <addr 192.168.100.101>]
> 16:19:06 : ipcp: returning Configure-ACK
> 16:19:06 : sent [IPCP ConfAck id=0x3 <addr 192.168.100.101>]
> 16:19:06 : ipcp: up
> 16:19:06 : local  IP address 10.15.137.253
> 16:19:06 : remote IP address 192.168.100.101
> 16:19:06 : primary   DNS address 172.31.140.69
> 16:19:06 : secondary DNS address 172.30.140.69
>