Thread View: uk.transport
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Started by Martin Croxford
Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:40
Rear End Drivers etc
Author: Martin Croxford
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:40
Date: Wed, 23 Dec 1992 16:40
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Jonathan Walker (jon_w@sn4401.oldham.gpsemi.com) wrote: : What is a safe way to rid your rear end of a dangerous : driver. : The scenario.... cars in the middle lane safe distant apart : traveling 60 to 65mph I'm overtaking 70 mph safe distance : from cars in front conditions cold, clear but dark (7.45am). : If a motorist (?) persists in driving 12 to 14ft away your : rear bumper at 70 pushing you to 80mph in the outside lane with nowhere for : you to go , is it such a good idea to 'brake' giving them : a fright of their lives causing them to flash their lights : sound their horn, and in an obscure form of sign language : express what a foolish maneuvre one has made. : Of course one must ignore the fact that 7 people died on the : very same motorway the previous day, and the radio warnings to : drive with care." : Or do I have carry on ignoring this motorists presence. David Shepherd (des@inmos.co.uk) replied: > my technique is to basically ignore them and wait until there is a > suitable gap in the middle lane then pull into it slowly doing a full > MSM routine. I agree completely with David Shepherd's answer to Jonathan Walker's scenario above. I've only found myself in this situation a couple of times and I've tried flashing my hazard's and/or fog lights to warn the driver behind of their foolishness, but ultimately continued driving in the normal way and pulled in when safe to do so. The flashing has worked most times - the driver appeared to be unaware of his/her error until signalled and pulled back to a safer distance. On one occasion, however, the driver *decreased* the gap and started repeated flashing; this was at night, dry road, average traffic, me at 70 - 75 mph in the 3rd lane. Scary stuff. But this whole thread brings up one of the most frustrating and dangerous aspects of motorway driving, namely "failing to return to the nearside lane following overtaking" or hogging the 2nd/3rd lane. In the scary case above the traffic in the 2nd lane was moving at about 65 - 70, but there was nothing in the 1st lane for at least 500 yards. The driver behind me should have waited a safe distance behind until I pulled in, however the potentially dangerous situation would never have occurred if the 2nd-laners had been in the 1st lane. One might argue that I had no business to be travelling at 70 - 75, and that the driver behind had no business to be travelling faster than that. My view is that it is reasonable to drive above 70 when the conditions allow. The important point about speed in any driving situation is to drive within the limits imposed by the road/traffic conditions, the weather conditions, the ability of the car, the ability of the driver. This view is supported by the practical application of the law by the police who advocate an increase in the speed limit to 80mph. Yes, it hasn't happened yet, but the police impose a practical speed limit of 80 in good conditions. The Highway Code requires drivers to move back in after overtaking slower vehicles. It also requires drivers to drive with consideration for other road users. This includes not obstructing other road users. Drivers who remain in the 2nd lane cause an obstruction and increase congestion in the 3rd lane - this is the case even when the speed limit is being kept by all concerned, in heavy traffic, in poor weather etc. The "legal-speed" drivers in the 2nd lane are committing an offence by not pulling over, not that they can be sure that they are driving at the legal speed anyway; the average speedo is not accurate and tends to be conservative. OK, if my speedo says 90 I don't know if I'm driving at 81 or 83 or whatever, but I do know I'm > 70. But what if my speedo says 70 ? I could be at 63 or 65, or 75. Drivers should aim to use the inner most lane except when overtaking. If there is nobody coming up behind or if it would be necessary to pull out very soon after pulling in it is reasonable to stay in lane. The speed issue is more contentious, but even if I'm driving at 80 I will still use the 1st lane...there is always faster traffic coming up behind and I would rather have it in front of me than three feet behind me, or three behind somebody in the 3rd lane prevented from moving in by me unnecessarily remaining in the 2nd lane. The "hogging" problem (and the "speed inappropriate for conditions" problem) will only be solved by education. A friend recently told me, eight weeks after passing his test, that the 2nd lane is the cruiser lane, the 1st lane is the slow lane and the 3rd lane is the fast lane. This would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. Changing tack slightly, I advocate a two-tier driving test, with the current test the basis for the first tier, and a system that limits performance to driving experience, for example two years experience required to drive a 1600cc car. I'd also like to see the introduction of re-testing and the showing of accident video nasties during driving training (and possibly on TV). I don't believe that stiffer sentences by themselves will help - people (and I include myself in all this) need to be persuaded that their driving needs to be improved and need to be told how to do it. There are a thousand and one problems with these measures, but the current average driving ability must be improved somehow. As for the "hogging" problem, I'd be interested to hear how others deal with it. I tend to grin and bear it...flashing people in front sometimes works, but more often encourages retaliation. I prefer to slow down and wait for the traffic to clear rather than, say, overtake on the inside. This posting is quite long enough. I hope there will be some debate. -- Martin Croxford martin@praxis.co.uk
Re: Rear End Drivers etc
Author: Alison J Wyld
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:51
Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1992 13:51
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In article <1992Dec23.164034.10429@praxis.co.uk> martin@praxis.co.uk (Martin Croxford) writes: > >The "hogging" problem (and the "speed inappropriate for conditions" >problem) will only be solved by education. A friend recently >told me, eight weeks after passing his test, that the 2nd lane is the >cruiser lane, the 1st lane is the slow lane and the 3rd lane is the fast >lane. This would be funny if it wasn't so dangerous. Changing tack >slightly, I advocate a two-tier driving test, with the current test the >basis for the first tier, and a system that limits performance to driving >experience, for example two years experience required to drive a 1600cc >car. I'd also like to see the introduction of re-testing and the showing of >accident video nasties during driving training (and possibly on TV). I >don't believe that stiffer sentences by themselves will help - people >(and I include myself in all this) need to be persuaded that their >driving needs to be improved and need to be told how to do it. There are >a thousand and one problems with these measures, but the current average >driving ability must be improved somehow. > >-- >Martin Croxford >martin@praxis.co.uk If its any comfort, your friend's answer would have meant an almost certain fail, if he'd been asked about the appropriate use of lanes on motorways in his test. I think it would be useful to include motorway driving in the current test, as is already done in lots of other countries. I still remember the EXTREME terror I felt when driving on a motorway for the first time - and I'd deliberately got my husband to go with me on a quiet evening, so that I'd have someone to talk me through things if I did start doing anything dumb. I'm not so sure if a "power-limit" would help. When I passed my test, we had a Morris Minor. Four months later we sold it and got a Triumph Vitesse (2L, 6 cylinder, loads of vrooming noises). I'm sure the Vitesse has made me a better driver. The Minor was so easy to drive, and so forgiving of mistakes, that it was easy just to mooch along without paying proper attention. I've never ever done that in the Vitesse - it just won't let me. Alison
Re: Rear End Drivers etc
Author: TREHARAJ
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 15:23
Date: Fri, 08 Jan 1993 15:23
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>Martin Croxford (martin@praxis.co.uk) wrote: > >: My view is that it is reasonable to drive above 70 when the conditions >: allow. The important point about speed in any driving situation is to drive >: within the limits imposed by the road/traffic conditions, the weather >: conditions, the ability of the car, the ability of the driver. This view >: is supported by the practical application of the law by the police who >: advocate an increase in the speed limit to 80mph. Yes, it hasn't happened >: yet, but the police impose a practical speed limit of 80 in good >: conditions. > >It's interesting to note that when attributing causes to accidents, >the police are ALWAYS careful to use the words "excessive speed". >They NEVER say "exceeding the speed limit". The distinction will be >lost on many people, but it is deliberate and twofold: under some >circumstances, exceeding the speed limit is not of itself dangerous, >and under other circumstamces driving at the speed limit is not safe. >-- > Steve Hunt steve@acorn.co.uk >------------------------------------------------------------------------------ ============================================================================== I was travelling on the M6 recently, it was dark, wet and traffic was heavy. I was in the middle lane, steady 65-70mph when I got tired of the lorries surrounding me, you know the situation where they overtake on the flat and then slow right down up hill. Fair enough normally but I had no visibility due to their spray and felt extremely vulnerable with lorries only feet away. I took the opportunity to get into the outside lane and picked up speed to about 80mph. Out of the lorry spray visibility was good and there was a fair distance to the cars in front. Suddenly a car appeared on my arse, as close close as it could get. I had no intention of increasing my speed and there were no gaps in the middle lane I could use. Then I noticed the car behind me was sporting a blue flashing light, the idiot wanted me to pull over. It took some time to get over to the hard shoulder as you can imagine. The police checked my documents and asked how many lanes I thought there were on a motorway and wanted to know why I hadn't let them past. I was annoyed to say the least, my response was that I felt that endangering my life by pulling into a gap I'd have had a job parking in wasn't a risk worth taking to allow some policeman to get home for his tea. They tried to convince me that I was expected to allow any car behind me to make progress even regardless of the fact it is doing a stupid speed. Andy T.
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