Thread View: uk.transport
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Started by Martin Croxford
Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:01
Speed limits
Author: Martin Croxford
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:01
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1993 17:01
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Richard Peat ssurpeat@uk.ac.rdg writes: > In article 13273@praxis.co.uk, martin@praxis.co.uk (Martin Croxford) writes: > >"You should be nicked" for driving at an inappropriate speed. On > >motorways this could be 100mph in most conditions, 70mph in heavy > >rain/heavy traffic or 25mph in "normal" conditions. Outside a school > >(assuming a 30mph limit) this could be 45mph at 3 in the morning, 35mph > >in most other conditions or 20mph at 3.45pm when the kids are going home. > > So, do you propose having massive limit signs that list all the various > different limits under different coditions. Or maybe change all the limit > signs for changing displays. I don't propose "having massive limit signs" (tho "changing display" signs are an interesting possibility). I am trying to make the point that the speed limit signs are not necessarily an indication of the safest maximum speed. > Anyway, why should the speed be any different at 3 in the morning. There > are still people around, and at that time less aware anyway. Just because > it's 3 in the morning, does not mean that hitting someone at 45mph will > be any less dangerous does it? On some stretches of 30mph road 45mph is safe at certain times of the day/night. If there are people about then 45mph might not be safe. If there are no people then 45mph might be reasonable. Depends on conditions. How do we know what speed is reasonable in a given set of conditions ? Through education and experience. If in doubt, drive at the speed limit. But what if the speed limit is too high ? About three years ago, at around 2 in the morning, I was driving through the outskirts of Godalming with some very drunk people in the car (I hadn't been drinking - I'd gone to pick up some friends from a party). I was stopped by the police in a 30mph zone, having been driving at around 40-45mph. I got out of the car and promptly apologised for exceeding the limit. The policeman's response was that I hadn't been driving with excessive speed; he and his colleague were concerned that I was as drunk as my passengers (they had seen us get in the car) - having established that I wasn't he apologised for delaying me and that was it. In an ideal driving world drivers would be penalised for driving with excess speed for the conditions, rather than just "speeding". Cameras will faithfully record evry vehicle that breaks the speed limit - how much better if the camera could faithfully record every vehicle that is travelling with excessive speed. Training all drivers to the level that police drivers are trained would do more for road safety than rigorous application of the law. -- Martin Croxford martin@praxis.co.uk These are my opinions
Re: Speed limits
Author: D N Crow
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:53
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1993 19:53
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In article <1993Jan22.170111.8420@praxis.co.uk>, martin@praxis.co.uk (Martin Croxford) writes: |> > |> > So, do you propose having massive limit signs that list all the various |> > different limits under different coditions. Or maybe change all the limit |> > signs for changing displays. |> |> I don't propose "having massive limit signs" (tho "changing display" |> signs are an interesting possibility). I am trying to make the point that the |> speed limit signs are not necessarily an indication of the safest maximum |> speed. You are quite right, at least in principle, but we all unfortunately have to live in the real world. It is certainly true that speed limits are not necessarily (or even often) the maximum safe speed for a given set of road conditions, but what practical (and that includes reasonably cost effective) measures could propose to have altering speed limits. Consider: If speed limits on roads in general varied according to conditions (be they amount of traffic, time of day, weather, whatever), I would imagine it would be very difficult to frame effective legislation to prevent *either*: a) Requiring too much of the police (I doubt they would want to have to make the day-to-day judegment calls a=on this issue, they have plenty enough to do already). Ask the police, they tend to prefer to enforce clear-cut laws than ones they have to make judegments about. Especially on this scale. *or* b) Making a defence of "but I thought it was sensible, even if the police didn't" possible. This would be disasterous (in my opinion) for road saftey. |> |> In an ideal driving world drivers would be penalised for driving with |> excess speed for the conditions, rather than just "speeding". Cameras |> will faithfully record evry vehicle that breaks the speed limit - how much |> better if the camera could faithfully record every vehicle that is |> travelling with excessive speed. |> This is clearly true, and equally clearly not practical. Even if we could afford this sort of technology, how could you get agreement on what is a reasonable speed for a set of conditions. I couldn't imagine being able to frame it in law to cover all situations (any lawyers care to comment on this?) and I would imagine that it would lead to far *more* prosecutions for breaking "limits": evidence seems to suggest many drivers consitently over-estimate what they can safely do in their vehicle. |> Training all drivers to the level that police drivers are trained would do |> more for road safety than rigorous application of the law. Almost certainly true. Can't see it happening: imagine the expense, but I certainly wish it was true. The other issue in all this is how you factoe road-worthiness of the vehicle into the equation of what is an appropriate maximum speed. Ouch. -- Dan Crow daniel@scs.leeds.ac.uk
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