🚀 go-pugleaf

"sanjian"
> > > Ok, just because you have a stupid law all over your country doesn't
> make it
> > > right.
> >
> > Greetings Sanjian,
> > The same law is applied throughout Europe, generally for the 'right' of
> > course.  A similar law operates in New Zealand South Africa etc.
More...
>
> Just because it's employed elsewhere doesn't make it right.

Sure, on the face of it, but this law is proven to work, hence it is adopted
by many countries to aid traffic flow and to improve road safety which
benefits from fewer crashes - because of fewer unnecessary lane changes.

Speed managment and enforcment of course remains the in realm of police.

Lane discipline is vital.  In this environment driver enjoyment of the task
is improved, since one knows what is expected of themselves.

> > > > Sitting in the middle lane/s of an otherwise empty freeway is just
> plain bad
> > > > driving, poor lane discipline.
> > >
> > > For no particular reason, other than your own prejudices in the
matter.
> >
> > The reasons are many and have bugger all to do with my personal
prejudices
> > sir!  In countries which have high freeway speed limits the correct lane
> > discipline helps in the overall traffic flow.  That flow is improved,
> > drivers know what is expected of them and most behave accordingly.
> >
> > Believe me it works.  Please, take a holiday in France, visit Germany,
> > Belgium, Luxemborg and see 'it' - in practice.  Better still, come to
> > Australia we are more than happy to take your money!
>
> Been to Spain, and I wasn't terribly impressed with the system.  Though
I'd
> love to go to Australia.  Maybe if my ship ever goes that way (I wish).

Spain is an EU state however it has a long way to go to catch up with those
other EU partners I mention above in the road safety and road use stakes.

Simplistically, it is improving rapidly though and needs an increased share
of EU transport infrastructure development costs.


> > > Over regulating driving isn't the answer.
> >
> > Mate, I agree it's just this particular law has widespread public
support,
> > it actually aids driving and reduces nervous tension, road rage - call
it
> > what you will.
>
> Not widespread public support, just among the politicians, who have lost
> touch with the people long ago.

This is a 'very' common feeling throughout the western world, happens at a
time of globalization, does this surprise you?  I would guess not.

The public support is there, it is EU law passed by state (country)
parliaments and in may other jurisdictions worldwide.  The law literally
applies to hundreds of millions of drivers worldwide outside the U.S and
with good reason, it has nothing to with some authoritarian control BTW, it
simply makes road sense.


The thing is, I don't see more regulation
> in this matter helping, but rather take some of the judgement out of the
> hands of the driver.

Arguable sure, what about merely posting the "keep right unless passing"
signs as an 'advisory'?  Some countries do this for a few years and if
deemeed necessary later back it up with legislation.  This methology relies
on the goodwill and commonsense of drivers.


While some may argue that some drivers haven't shown
> the ability to excersise judgement, it is necessary to keep the decision
> making process on the road, as opposed to letting Richmond make the
> decisions.

I am very sympathetic of course to this, it is just that on this particular
issue however and by my own world experiences,- are that this particular law
has worked, and is working in those jurisdictions that adopt it.

(Richmond is the capital of the Commonwealth of Virginia, BTW)

I am a foreigner, however I know this sir.  In fact I was taught this when
attending Primary school in a country called Papua New Guinea of all places,
just north of Australia, not far from the Solomon Islands where thousands of
US service personnel lost their lives fighting the Japanese in various
bloody campaigns back in WWII.


> > > I'd be right pissed if I'm crawling at 30mph on the right lane, and
the
> left
> > > is open.
> >
> > Eh???
> > The point is the law 'allows' you to then use the left lane, SINCE you
> will
> > OBVIOUSLY be passing that slower traffic Sanjian.  It is NOT intended to
> > force you to 'have' to drive slowly in the right lane, this would be
> > counterproductive.
>
> The problem is, when the row of slow cars extends for a few miles with
both
> lanes open, it's bound to extend farther with only one lane as a driving
> lane, and the other as the passing lane.

The 'keep right unless passing' laws would only be enforced during light to
moderate traffic conditions, this is what happens everywhere else.  No one
has been fined for keeping left during times of traffic congestion, this
would be lunacy.


Even if it doesn't, I'm going to
> be passing for a few miles at a time.  I'm not sure this is what's
intended.

Sure, you get this sometimes, it is compounded when slower 'right' lane
traffic pulls out to pass adding to the left lane congestion, however given
a 24 hour clock, this scenario is certainly valid but is not the majority
condition.  I appreciate your concern and would not be overly concerned with
it.


> > The law is intended to stop drivers from blocking all lanes
simultaneously
> > when traffic lanes are otherwize relatively clear.  It is deemed that
the
>
> If traffic is relatively clear, then there is no real need for the law.
> I've never had a problem getting to the lane I need to. It takes a little
> skill, but even in heavier traffic, one can get around the one assinine
car.

This would indicate more than necessary lane changes, a slalom in and out of
slower traffic if you will.  The outside world has discovered that
encouraging correct, or improved lane discipline by legislating that those
drivers who have a clear right lane be made to move into it,- reduces the
incidence of crashes, the flow on is improved overall traffic flow as a
result of the reduction of those preventable crashes and because the
comprehension among drivers is as 'one'.

I make a point, that some countries (Australia is one) allows drivers to
pass in marked lanes despite the 'keep right unless passing' signs, if a
faster traffic is 'forced' or coerced into doing this, the driver causing
the 'block' is certainly fined and will lose points.

The blocking offence is considered one of the most annoying and potentially
dangerous activities a motorists can do to others as often reported in
polls, this poll 'response' is why the penalities for not keeping left
(right in the USA) are on the increase downunder.

> > left lane (US) is the lane drivers should make a practice of getting out
> > of - once they have passed other traffic.  If traffic is heavy, you may
> keep
> > using the left lane, just make a practice of moving to the right if an
> > obvious faster vehicle comes up behind you, IF you have the safe space
to
> do
> > so, otherwize the faster driver will have to wait - a little, till you
can
> > get back into the right lane.
>
> The way it's currently viewed is that the left lane is the fast lane.  If
> you're in it, you better not be being passed.

Some call it the 'fast lane', merely a descriptive term.  You see, take this
example, if you were in Germany on a freeway with three lanes of travel in
each direction with little traffic flow, you, regardless of your speed are
required to keep to the rightmost lane, you may then merge to the centre
lane to opass those vehicles in the right lane, once you are clear of them
you signal back again!

The 'keep right unless passing' signs come into particular play as traffic
builds, where you may then use the right (passing) lane to pass that middle
lane traffic, flow is encouraged by keeping a 'through' lane and encouraging
drivers to use it properly.  It takes time for drivers to adapt, they will
do so given time and experience.

My point being that 'fast lane' is perhaps a bit of a misnomer, since one
should keep right regardless of speed, only moving out when the need arises.
This in fact is perhaps a devious form of speed control, you accelerate
between lengths of vehicles as opposed to flying past them at speed in the
adjacent lane.  A clever German speed managment method.

An obvious issue is that with some U.S freeway you have olde style left lane
exits!!  This is engineering criminality to my mind:-)

Here, 'keep right unless passing' signs should perhaps not be posted at this
point until the subject exit - is reconstructed to the right as it always
should be.  This is a lesson in modern roads engineering.

Any future U.S freeway projects with right lane exits must be prevented from
being constructed until plans are upgraded to right lane exits.

> > Your argument about the requirement for the additional traffic lanes
> Hampton
> > Roads Bridge Tunnel really is a separate issue, I agree you need those
> > additional lanes, here for the moment the law applies only when the
> traffic
> > is lite (light) it does not apply and therefore would not be enforced
> during
> > times of traffic congestion.
>
> Unfortuantly, the two cannot be separated.  As long as we continue not to
> have sufficient lanes, restricting access to some will only compound the
> problem.

Does not apply.  The signs or legislation would "not" make it an offence
where or when the lanes are congested. I say again by experience it is not
an issue really.

> > I suspect there may be a misunderstanding about the "keep right unless
> > passing" signage and practice.
> >
> > Give it a few years (for drivers to learn and adopt) and you will see an
> > improvement in traffic discipline with the 'keep right unless passing'
> > practice.  I'll guarantee that one and I reckon I'll make a convert out
of
> > you:-)
>
> Maybe with some improvements to the roads, but as it is now, it will just
> tie the Hampton Roads area into a knot.

The bigger statewide picture, indeed country picture should come into play
for the greater national good, saved dollars.  Might sound like a
centralized grab, I don't mean it to be - since small localities can benefit
from the practice of 'keep right unless passing'.

More $$$ I guess??

Rule #1  Never enough money for anything.

Jeremy H . Pritchard
Motorists Advocate-AUS
jpkt@wxc.com.au