🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <1992Dec15.114750.5898@ais.com>, bruce@ais.com (Bruce C. Wright)
 writes:
> But if you're changing something like DCL, to do something like add new
> lexical functions, I think you'll _need_ the compilable sources -- it's
> not like writing something that interfaces with some of the internals,
> you'll have to actually modify the sources and recompile the image.  The
> listings are rather problematic for this purpose.

Maybe, maybe not... I'll bet it could be done via PATCH.  however I don't have
enough free time to investigate the possibility right now.

> They _are_ very useful however, and in many (most?) cases you don't
> really need compilable sources.

Yes, and in a case like the one we're discussing, it would be cheap enough to
buy the listings first, just to find  out if you really need the compilable
sources.

> if I'm not mistaken the actual source kit is not only expensive, but
> also subject to frequent policy changes by DEC.

Price for the source kit has remained at a steady $25,000 for as long as I can
remember.  (You now have the choice of CD or mag tape, same price.)  The policy
has always been that you need to sign a source license agreement (same as for
the listings kit).

Digital has sold so few of these, though, especially since listings became
available, that the last source kit I'm aware of was made for VMS V5.2, and
I've heard them say that that is likely the last one they'll put together.  It
takes them a fair amount of effort to produce it and to arrange it so that J.
Random Customer has some hope of being able to do the build on their own
machine, especially since there are a few blocks of code (proprietary
technology, which requires a separate licensing arrangement; the code that
speaks LAT is one example) which have to be provided as object libraries.  It
isn't just a matter of taking a snapshot of the master source pack!  Doing all
this for the small number of customers who are interested (I gather that the
number is well under a hundred) just isn't worth it.

> As you note there is
> a widespread misconception that the listings kit is also subject to the
> same policy changes, a typical case of DEC's right hand not knowing
> what the left hand is doing.
>
> Bruce C. Wright

This is unfortunately true.  Again it's a matter of putting resources where
the most sales are.

	--- Jamie Hanrahan, Kernel Mode Consulting, San Diego CA
drivers, internals, networks, applications, and training for VMS and Windows-NT
uucp 'g' protocol guru and release coordinator, VMSnet (DECUS uucp) W.G., and
Chair, Programming and Internals Working Group, U.S. DECUS VMS Systems SIG
Internet:  jeh@cmkrnl.com, hanrahan@eisner.decus.org, or jeh@crash.cts.com
Uucp:  ...{crash,eisner,uunet}!cmkrnl!jeh