🚀 go-pugleaf

On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 12:16:02 GMT, nenosed@apex.met.au (Ned Latham)
wrote:

>Lugnut <ausbiz@iinet.net.au> wrote:
>>
>> nenosed@apex.met.au (Ned Latham) wrote:
>>
>> snip
>>
>> > Gaols are a bad idea because they disseminate criminal knowledge.
>> 
>> ... but..... isnt that the same reason they gave for wanting to censor
>> the internet?  Knowledge is power - it just depends on the ideals of
>> the person/govt/whatever who has it.
>
>There's a big difference between the two: criminals in gaol are a closed
>society, exchanging their knowledge secretively; on the internet, everyone
>can see what's being disseminated. If you know what the crims can do, you
>can take measures against it.

... but we *do* know what crims can do, and still the system beats us
when we do catch them.  Jail seems to be a school for apprentice
crims, as is juve.  You cant stop them talking to each other, so whats
the answer?  The govt wont spend more money and make jails like
'school' or a 'retraining' camp.  It seems that either jail is meant
to be a nasty time for those charged with offences, or its a chance at
rehabilitation.

I dont think we will see *real* rehabilitation because of the costs
involved.  
(and then where would all those lawyers get the $$ to play golf?)


>He stole electricity because he couldn't afford to pay for it. What sense is
>there in fining him? It strikes me as a staggeringly vindictive imposition:
>in a sense (perhaps a very real one) taking food out of the mouths of his
>family, and clothing off their backs. Community service would have been more
>productive, I think.

I totally agree with you here.

>> > I think that there should be no exceptions: either you do your National
>> > Service *training*, or you don't qualify for citizenship. It should
>> > apply to immigrants as well as natives.

Able bodies and able minds - no worries......  except for what is
listed way down further   I
                                       I
                                      V

>> > No exceptions means that everybody's life is equally ``interrupted''
>> > (more or less).
>> 
>> I dont agree with you.
>> There are *always* exceptions.
>> Medical grounds is just one.
>
>What sort of medical grounds? Note that I emphasized ``training'' above.

There are some people who would not take to that kind of life :-)
Those who are *delicate* of psyche and body.
You dont want to ruin the life of a person who cant handle being
yelled at/dressed down in front of mates for continual mistakes. Some
people will just not be suitable - there needs to be a way out for
those who would rather committ suicide/go awol than continue on in the
forces - what kind of soldier would we have by keeping them in the
forces anyway?
Also those with real medical problems that would affect them in any
job should be exempt.

>I don't intend nashoes to be sent on active military service, for one thing,
>and for another, I don't feel that military service/training is the only way
>to go. The trainging should be structured around the capabilities and aptitudes
>of the trainee,

If we had NS now, they would be training for East Timor  - the WW's
are off to that location now, and we havent sent them to a zone of
strife you many years. If the need is there, they *will* be sent.

>> And when does 'interrupted' mean 'ruined'?
>
>It's the amount of time spent in training. While you're doing that, you're not
>at school or your job or whatever.
>
>When does that mean ``ruined''?

If you are not free to take up job offers/committments/ then you may
loose an advancement/job.  Same on the home front. Not there for
important family events, etc.  It puts the NS people at a
disadvantage. What can NS offer to compensate?


>> I agree it may be good for some - but not all.
>
>Allowing exceptions means introducing/perpetuating privilege.


>She can't afford it?
>
>I'm on the dole. $40/month is a big whack for me, but I pay it anyway.
>I regard it as an investment in my future.
>
>Tell her this: she can't afford to forgo it.

She has to buy a new computer, and then pay for access on her pension.
Whats *more* important to her is that she have money for the current
campaign, and then she will see what she can do.

>> I will pass on your comments, as she is keen to hear what people have
>> to say, and to listen to all points of view.  (doesnt sound
>> narrow-minded at all, now does it)  :-))
>
>Well, I guess we'll see.

I sure hope so! :-)
------------------
ECHELON, listening in to your communications,

http://www.qainfo.se/~lb/echelon.htm