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Article #304Re: UN and US.... Re: US and the UN
From: jsavard
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:38
Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:38
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6987 bytes
Steve (steve@nospam4me.org) wrote: : President Bush's legitimate power ends at the US territorial 12 mile limit. : Beyond that point, he is just another unelected dictator imposing his will, : through force of arms, on people who didn't - and can't - vote for him. If : he wants to lead the world, he must also be accountable to it. This certainly seems true. However, it omits some important facts. Is there a "world" to be accountable to? Thus, for example, before the U.S. invaded Iraq, were the Iraqi people able to vote democratically for representatives in a world government? Or were they able to vote democratically for leaders in an Iraqi government? If neither, then the Iraqi people were represented nowhere, and there is no automatic reason to prefer Saddam Hussein's will for the Iraqi people to George W. Bush's will for the Iraqi people. Indeed, George W. Bush has no authority to make law for the world. The U.S. should not try to tell the rest of the world what kind of copyright law it should have, or which countries they should impose trade sanctions on. However, the world's democratic nations, which include the United States, but which also include Canada, Israel, the Republic of China (that is, Taiwan), Australia, Britain, France, Switzerland, and so on and so forth, live in a world where there is no democratic world government. So while they should not be trying to boss each other around, if there is a patch of ground somewhere which DOES NOT have a democratic government - and Iraq qualifies in that regard - I see no reason they should not feel free to bring legitimate law and order to that area whenever they feel it is desirable to do so. Whether it is to liberate the people there from an oppressive regime, or to protect peaceful people from aggression or the threat of aggression, to depose a government that is accountable to _no one_ on behalf of a government that _is_ accountable to people, ordinary peace-loving people, even if they are the people of a different country, is not wrong. Unfortunately, through mismanagement, non-democratic regimes have been allowed to get their hands on weapons more advanced than clubs, rocks, and spears, and thus we live in a world where non-democratic government has persisted. This has led to some unfortunate accomodations with non-democratic governments; it has been expedient to extend reciprocal rights of recognition to them. Hopefully, these dark days will be over, and we will soon live in a peaceful world where everyone is free. Where everyone lives under democracy. Where no one has any fear of consequences for following their own religious belief (in ways that don't violate the rights of others) even if it differs from that of their neighbors. Where no one is forced to learn a foreign language just to survive and get a job, as long as they haven't moved to a foreign country. (Yes, this includes people like the Basques and the Inuit.) Where the different countries have very small armies, because they don't need more, so taxes are kept low, and the only people who serve as soldiers are those who have voluntarily applied for the position. (No wars, hence no conscription; no giant standing armies, hence no universal service.) Big obstacles to this are governments like those in Saudi Arabia (which discriminate against non-Muslims) and the government in the People's Republic of China (which suppresses free political debate, and maintains hegemony over people in Tibet and Uighuristan, who don't want to remain in a country that has done oppression to their lands, which were happy and peaceful before China imposed itself on them). Why would anyone object, *except* for the danger imposed in carrying out the task, because these governments have their hands on weapons that can hurt people, to pushing these tyrants out of the way so that a peaceful world can bloom? It is true, though, that there are legitimate concerns about things like globalism. Before countries can be expected to open up their borders to imports, they must first have succeeded in reducing unemployment to tolerable levels - like 3% - and then they should have full discretion in admitting only such imports as are needful and do not threaten maintaining acceptably low rates of unemployment. Thus, I do admit that the United States is pursuing its self-interest in ways that are harmful to bringing about a peaceful and happy world; if it abandoned these errors, it would find it easier to get the other democracies to join it in ridding the world of tyranny. Also, because the United States was formed with the idea of being a non-ethnic state, where there is little at stake in control of the government (thus, the government is limited to spending money on "general welfare", like lighthouses and libraries, and can't be used to transfer money from one region or economic group to another; there can be no official language or religion) it has sometimes failed to understand the need for some peoples of national independence, and has tried to avoid partitioning of unworkable federations. When there has been bloodshed between ethnic groups, a national boundary is needed between them; after hundreds of years, mutual respect instead of fear and hatred will develop, but if you force them to live now under the same government, it will only take longer. We need to hurry to build a stress-free world where everyone is happy. John Savard
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X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: f504b,183c421e038122a4,start X-Google-Attributes: gidf504b,public X-Google-Thread: fb374,183c421e038122a4,start X-Google-Attributes: gidfb374,public X-Google-Thread: 108c64,a247d8883620944e X-Google-Attributes: gid108c64,public X-Google-Thread: 112f74,183c421e038122a4,start X-Google-Attributes: gid112f74,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 2003-04-18 07:38:36 PST Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!archiver1.google.com!news1.google.com!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!proxad.net!nerim.net!deine.net!east1.newsfeed.sprint-canada.net!HME1-2.newsfeed.sprint.ca!east2.newsfeed.sprint-canada.net!west2.newsfeed.sprint-canada.net!newsfeed.grouptelecom.net!localhost!jsavard From: jsavard@ecn.ab.ca () Subject: Re: UN and US.... Re: US and the UN Newsgroups: wpg.general,can.general,can.politics,ab.general References: <JHlna.740067$Yo4.69242850@news1.calgary.shaw.ca> <wVlna.803$95.52@www.newsranger.com> <IQnna.2697$AB5.356130@news02.tsnz.net> <HRnna.2698$AB5.356211@news02.tsnz.net> Organization: Edmonton Community Network X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Lines: 106 Message-ID: <Q5Una.397$5M.15471@localhost> Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 14:38:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.161.206.2 X-Trace: localhost 1050676720 198.161.206.2 (Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:38:40 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Apr 2003 08:38:40 MDT