🚀 go-pugleaf

Curious George wrote:

> On Tue, 09 Aug 2005 05:09:23 -0500, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
> wrote:
> 
> 
>>Curious George wrote:
>>
>>>On Sat, 06 Aug 2005 22:01:36 -0500, David Maynard <nospam@private.net>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>
>>>>>I think you're giving more credit than is due.  AFAIK He has never
>>>>>acknowledged ANY limitations of NETBUI that would limit its use to
>>>>>"certain situations".
>>>>
>>>>I dunno. Maybe you missed the very beginning where the virtues of a 
>>>>routable protocol, like TCP/IP, vs the non routable netbeui was discussed
>>>
>>>
>>>I don't really see such an equally weighed & measured comparisons in
>>>any real context like you seem to characterize here.  A simple
>>>reference to sometimes wanting routability is not very explicit and
>>>grossly overshadowed by excessive NetBEUI pushing.
>>
>>He didn't mention routability, or rather the lack of it, I did.
> 
> 
> Whatcha mean?  You've just claimed you discussed it with him?

Yes, that's exactly what I mean. What was unclear?

> Were you the first to bring it up?

Yes, as one of the failings of netbeui.

>  It doesn't really matter in the
> context of whether he has conceded that NetBEUI is for "certain
> situations" & "not all."  You and he have cited routability as
> evidence of his concession.  Indeed I can only find cursory mention:
> 
> <quote>
> On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 04:43:40 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
> 
> 
>>The fact of the matter is that the main benefit of TCP/IP is
>>that it's routable..  Once you remove that need, you're left
>>with a slower protocol.  
> 
> 
> </quote>

Well, you apparently missed part of the conversation.

>>>NetBEUI becomes routable via Advanced NetBIOS over IPX or TCP/IP.  I
>>>understand the focus is basic NETBEUI, not NetBIOS, but it really
>>>can't be excluded from a practical discussion which includes networks
>>>with _both_ TCP/IP & NetBEUI as well as one or the other.
>>
>>There was no desire on his part to 'counter' the routability argument 
>>because his Netbeui application is 'small networks' where Netbeui is the 
>>transport so Netbios riding on TCP/IP doesn't address anything in his case.
> 
> 
> If, as Kony claims, routability is the only feature he knows of that
> that makes it appropriate for "certain situations" & "not all" then
> that disintegrates with NetBIOS over IPX or TCP/IP as it is
> essentially on an equal footing as TCP/IP in that regard.  It also is
> common among networks with both TCP/IP & NetBEUI, which have been
> discussed here, so it warrants mention for both reasons.

You're trying to 'guess' what people said and meant, when it would seem you 
missed it, and then argue with your own 'guess'.

Netbios over TCP/IP has nothing to do with it because routing is not needed 
in the limited use.

> 
> <snip>
> 
>>>>Yep. But then one has to get over knee jerk conspiracy theories first to 
>>>>consider it.
>>>>
>>>>Actually, in this case you don't. Surely MS wouldn't 'let go' of such a 
>>>>'useful' networking mechanism as a non routable, internet incompatible, 
>>>>protocol.
>>>
>>>
>>>Yes but the conspiracy theorists disagree.  
>>>
>>>Unfortunately you also agree both can exist together fine.  An then
>>>there's also NetBIOS.  That's not reason enough to beat it down so
>>>bad.
>>
>>You lost me here.
> 
> 
> It sounds to me like you're essentially saying dropping NetBIOS
> doesn't require a conspiracy as it is so un-useful presently.  While
> probably not untrue, I don't agree you've cited reasons here that
> adequately support such a strong statement about NetBIOS as a
> deficient protocol.

Then you missed all that part too.

>  Also the conspiracy theorists seem to hold the
> opposite view as you.

Clearly. Which was the point of how absurd conspiracy theories can get, 
even to the point of missing the better 'conspiracy' because the typical 
methodology is to simply find 'some' argument, no matter how obtuse or 
outlandish, whether it's logical or not. It 'must' be pernicious so one 
looks for the 'evidence' to justify the already determined conclusion and 
since one starts with whatever conspiracy first came to mind it's likely to 
be what's found since it's what one is seeking