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6 messages
6 total messages Started by Your Special Friend Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:26
Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1077
Author: Your Special Friend
Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 02:26
127 lines
6484 bytes
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/453424.cms

The Times of India Online 

Clinton, Gates back free trade
CHIDANAND RAJGHATTA

TIMES NEWS NETWORK[ THURSDAY, JANUARY 29, 2004 08:53:46 PM ]

WASHINGTON: Some of America's best minds - Bill Clinton, Alan
Greenspan, Bill Gates among others - have come out in support of free
trade and against protectionism, issues that affect outsourcing to
India.
 
Bill Gates 
 
They say fears of its impact on the US economy are unwarranted � and
largely exaggerated.

In the past few days, these heavyweights, in remarks at meetings in
Davos, London, Washington and elsewhere, have scoffed at the rising
hysteria in the US against outsourcing being fuelled by American
politicians facing re-election and pressure from their constituents
worried about near-term job loss.

Their message to the American workforce: Get used to the idea. Free
trade and one of its consequences, outsourcing, isn't going to stop.

At a conference in London earlier this week, Gates warned against
shutting out India and China from the development process, saying
"what is happening is fantastic for then."

He said that developing countries should instead think about what the
advantages are of migrating work to China and look at doing high-end
work in the US.

"If we are not realistic about what we are good at then there is a
chance of going backwards in the face of further competition...
Innovative companies need to look at which things they should do
offshore and what they should do at home," Gates said.
 
 
Alan Greenspan 
 
Federal Reserve chairman Alan Greenspan had a similar message, warning
that the "consequences of moving in that direction (protectionism) in
today's far more globalised financial world could be unexpectedly
destabilising."

"Competition from abroad has risen to a point at which developed
countries' lowest skilled workers are being priced out of the global
labour market," Greenspan told the London meeting.

"The diminishing of opportunities for such workers is why retraining
for new job skills that meet the evolving opportunities created by our
economies has become so urgent a priority," he added.

 
Bill Clinton 
 
At Davos, former US president Bill Clinton rubbished the
anti-globalisation forces � including the social forum gathering in
Mumbai � saying "they are mourning for a past that never existed."

The explosion of growth in hi-tech had given India the largest middle
class in the world and if India resolved its internal problems, it
would grow faster than China in the next 20 years, he said.

Meanwhile, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan told the European Union
meeting to stop using migration as a scapegoat.

"Without migrants, many jobs that provide services and generate
revenue would go unfilled and many societies would age and shrink.
Migrants are part of the solution, not part of the problem," Annan old
EU lawmakers.

While these heavyweights have used broad strokes to defend free trade,
a range of commentaries, analysis and studies in the US suggest that
the anti-free trade brigade is hopelessly mistaken about its effect on
the American economy.
 
 
Kofi Annan 
 
One study data as recent as December 2003 indicates a 14 per cent
increase in business and financial occupations, a 6 per cent increase
in computer and mathematical jobs, and only a 2 per cent drop in
architecture and engineering jobs in the US.

New programming jobs may be springing up in India, but they are not
cancelling out job growth in the US, is the message from Dr Catherine
Mann of Institute of International Economics in Washington, who
authored the study.

A variety of other sources have in recent days sought to bring a
perspective to the outsourcing hysteria.

Wired , an edgy tech magazine, has the move to India as the subject of
its latest cover story and it, too, warns against exaggerating the
threat.

"It's not hard to see how outsourcing to India could lead to the next
great era in American enterprise. Today, even innovative firms spend
too much money maintaining products: fixing bugs and rolling out
nearly identical 2.0 versions," Wired editor-in-chief Chris Anderson
says in an editorial.

"Send the maintenance to India and, even after costs, 20 per cent of
the budget is freed up to come up with the next breakthrough app. The
result: more workers focused on real innovation. What comes after
services? Creativity."

For now though, "It's not a matter of blue collar versus white collar;
the collar to wear is Nehru," Anderson writes, much to the dismay of
US tech workers.

Anderson's commentary and articles in US tech magazines back the
assertions of industry leaders like Intel's Craig Barrett and H-P's
Carly Fiorina that the job shift to India is not only inevitable but
also in American interest.

"There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," H-P chief
Carly Fiorina said recently in a remarks that outraged some Americans.
"We have to compete for jobs."

In so many words, that is also the message from Bill Clinton, Alan
Greenspan, Bill Gates and Kofi Annan.
Re: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1053
Author: Maxwelton
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 13:32
78 lines
4362 bytes
ybf@ziplip.com (Your Special Friend) wrote in message news:<1214fb08.0401291826.28fd270c@posting.google.com>...
> http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/453424.cms
> 

> Bill Gates 
>  
> "If we are not realistic about what we are good at then there is a
> chance of going backwards in the face of further competition...
> Innovative companies need to look at which things they should do
> offshore and what they should do at home," Gates said.

It is interesting that no one ever pin points what we are good at. 
A few years ago when the textile mills were closing everyone thought
high tech was the industry. Oooops! It's gone overseas. Maybe
he is talking about lawyering. 
>  
> Alan Greenspan 

A smart man that made an incredible blunder a few years ago. 
> 
> "Competition from abroad has risen to a point at which developed
> countries' lowest skilled workers are being priced out of the global
> labour market," Greenspan told the London meeting.

If he were speaking today he would replace "lowest skilled" with 
"highest skilled". He is stuck in the 90's
> 
> "The diminishing of opportunities for such workers is why retraining
> for new job skills that meet the evolving opportunities created by our
> economies has become so urgent a priority," he added.

Retraining in what? No point in wasting time on something that will
be outsourced in 3 years. 
> 
>  
> Bill Clinton 

> 
> The explosion of growth in hi-tech had given India the largest middle
> class in the world and if India resolved its internal problems, it
> would grow faster than China in the next 20 years, he said.
> 
> Meanwhile, UN Secretary General Kofi Annan told the European Union
> meeting to stop using migration as a scapegoat.

So what fuels the growth if the developed nations aren't losing?
> 

> While these heavyweights have used broad strokes to defend free trade,
> a range of commentaries, analysis and studies in the US suggest that
> the anti-free trade brigade is hopelessly mistaken about its effect on
> the American economy.

Right, it's the economy which american workers are not part of?
>  
>  
> Kofi Annan 
>  
> One study data as recent as December 2003 indicates a 14 per cent
> increase in business and financial occupations, a 6 per cent increase
> in computer and mathematical jobs, and only a 2 per cent drop in
> architecture and engineering jobs in the US.

Something dropped, but why? We must be more nationally secure as 
business leaders and not technology leaders. 
> 
> 
> "There is no job that is America's God-given right anymore," H-P chief
> Carly Fiorina said recently in a remarks that outraged some Americans.
> "We have to compete for jobs."
> 
> In so many words, that is also the message from Bill Clinton, Alan
> Greenspan, Bill Gates and Kofi Annan.

Freedom is not a god given right. When you consider those that give their 
lives or part of their life keeping the shipping lanes open, and all
those that came before defending the shores one has to get their priorities
in order. I am sure it will all work out down the road.
Re: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1054
Author: John Higdon
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 14:47
50 lines
3479 bytes
In article <e3398e5.0401310532.6ff94685@posting.google.com>,
 maxwelton@my-deja.com (Maxwelton) wrote:

> It is interesting that no one ever pin points what we are good at. 
> A few years ago when the textile mills were closing everyone thought
> high tech was the industry. Oooops! It's gone overseas. Maybe
> he is talking about lawyering. 

I think high-tech is still the industry. Have you taken a good look at 
exactly which jobs are being outsourced and off-shored? Not every 
software coding job is "highly-skilled". Some of them are pretty routine 
and uninspiring. It may just be that these jobs are overpaid in this 
country and moving them off the table in this country is a good thing. 
It's something to think about. 

Any job that can be moved to India or China would seem to me to be 
hardly one that is tightly critical to the operation of a company. 
Sounds more like routine code maintenance that (literally) anyone could 
do given certain basic skills. And they remain very much under the 
direction of the people who remain here.

> > "Competition from abroad has risen to a point at which developed
> > countries' lowest skilled workers are being priced out of the global
> > labour market," Greenspan told the London meeting.
> 
> If he were speaking today he would replace "lowest skilled" with 
> "highest skilled". He is stuck in the 90's

Not everyone who works in a cubicle is "highest skilled".

> Retraining in what? No point in wasting time on something that will
> be outsourced in 3 years. 

That's why one must continually upgrade his skills. Lifetime jobs went 
away a long time ago.

> So what fuels the growth if the developed nations aren't losing?

Have we stopped innovating?

> Freedom is not a god given right. When you consider those that give their 
> lives or part of their life keeping the shipping lanes open, and all
> those that came before defending the shores one has to get their priorities
> in order. I am sure it will all work out down the road.

It has so far.

-- 
John Higdon     | Email Address Valid | SF:  +1 415 428-COWS
+1 408 264 4115 |     Anytown, USA    | FAX: +1 408 264 4407
Re: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1057
Author: John R Pierce
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:32
16 lines
2585 bytes
On 31 Jan 2004 05:32:08 -0800, maxwelton@my-deja.com (Maxwelton) wrote:

>> "If we are not realistic about what we are good at then there is a
>> chance of going backwards in the face of further competition...
>> Innovative companies need to look at which things they should do
>> offshore and what they should do at home," Gates said.
>
>It is interesting that no one ever pin points what we are good at. 
>A few years ago when the textile mills were closing everyone thought
>high tech was the industry. Oooops! It's gone overseas. Maybe
>he is talking about lawyering. 

lawyering and marketing.

the company model of the future is Caldera/SCO... No products, no nada,
just lawsuits and BS.
Re: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1060
Author: John Higdon
Date: Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:40
26 lines
2399 bytes
In article <uj0o1054hffdeu0kem6i0h6mkkaaehei19@news.lmi.net>,
 John R Pierce <spam@is.invalid> wrote:

> On 31 Jan 2004 05:32:08 -0800, maxwelton@my-deja.com (Maxwelton) wrote:
> 
> >> "If we are not realistic about what we are good at then there is a
> >> chance of going backwards in the face of further competition...
> >> Innovative companies need to look at which things they should do
> >> offshore and what they should do at home," Gates said.
> >
> >It is interesting that no one ever pin points what we are good at. 
> >A few years ago when the textile mills were closing everyone thought
> >high tech was the industry. Oooops! It's gone overseas. Maybe
> >he is talking about lawyering. 
> 
> lawyering and marketing.
> 
> the company model of the future is Caldera/SCO... No products, no nada,
> just lawsuits and BS.

Don't forget international security. I'd say that's our #1 industry 
right now.

-- 
John Higdon     | Email Address Valid | SF:  +1 415 428-COWS
+1 408 264 4115 |     Anytown, USA    | FAX: +1 408 264 4407
Re: Bill Clinton, Bill Gates, Alan Greenspan and Kofi Annan support free trade, outsourcing!
#1063
Author: Maxwelton
Date: Sun, 01 Feb 2004 05:55
81 lines
5219 bytes
John Higdon <absolutely.no.spam@verislimesucks.com> wrote in message news:<absolutely.no.spam-979151.06471631012004@equine.announcetech.com>...
> In article <e3398e5.0401310532.6ff94685@posting.google.com>,
>  maxwelton@my-deja.com (Maxwelton) wrote:
> 
> > It is interesting that no one ever pin points what we are good at. 
> > A few years ago when the textile mills were closing everyone thought
> > high tech was the industry. Oooops! It's gone overseas. Maybe
> > he is talking about lawyering. 
> 
> I think high-tech is still the industry. Have you taken a good look at 
> exactly which jobs are being outsourced and off-shored? Not every 
> software coding job is "highly-skilled". Some of them are pretty routine 
> and uninspiring. It may just be that these jobs are overpaid in this 
> country and moving them off the table in this country is a good thing. 
> It's something to think about. 

To a point this is true. Most of our overseas work is in test. However,
developers are now being outsourced overseas. It started with 
help centers, then test and then developement.  
> 
> Any job that can be moved to India or China would seem to me to be 
> hardly one that is tightly critical to the operation of a company. 
> Sounds more like routine code maintenance that (literally) anyone could 
> do given certain basic skills. And they remain very much under the 
> direction of the people who remain here.


Most people have no idea what might be involved in routine code
maintenance. Every place I know will require knowledge about
different operating systems, build processes, other software,
networks and hardware. I know that even routine code maintenance
is too daunting for literally anyone even with "basic skills". 
They would be better off being a lawyer.
Right now I get slowed down because the people in India don't 
understand how to test a system because they don't know where one
system begins and another begins. They don't know how to configure
systems properly and it wastes our time because we can't walk next
door and show them what they are doing wrong. 
They don't listen well continuing to bring up matters that I can
verify are pointless. It wastes a lot of my time. It's like they
have an agenda but I am not sure what it is.

> > > "Competition from abroad has risen to a point at which developed
> > > countries' lowest skilled workers are being priced out of the global
> > > labour market," Greenspan told the London meeting.
> > 
> > If he were speaking today he would replace "lowest skilled" with 
> > "highest skilled". He is stuck in the 90's
> 
> Not everyone who works in a cubicle is "highest skilled".

Not everyone is right.  
> 
> > Retraining in what? No point in wasting time on something that will
> > be outsourced in 3 years. 
> 
> That's why one must continually upgrade his skills. Lifetime jobs went 
> away a long time ago.

> 
> > So what fuels the growth if the developed nations aren't losing?
> 
> Have we stopped innovating?

No, but we move it overseas really quick as compared with the past.
The brilliant bean counters haven't caught on that a lot of company
innovation is being stolen by foreign nationals. Of course the competition
is getting stronger because they are helping it and too stupid to even 
realize it.  

> 
> > Freedom is not a god given right. When you consider those that give their 
> > lives or part of their life keeping the shipping lanes open, and all
> > those that came before defending the shores one has to get their priorities
> > in order. I am sure it will all work out down the road.
> 
> It has so far.

When people here no longer find a degree in computer science attractive
(which is starting to happen now) then we are in big trouble. Most people
haven't a clue about why our military is so successful.
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