🚀 go-pugleaf

In article <43502129-d096-4f9c-907e-e19814fe6aaa@a1g2000hsb.googlegroups.com>,
R.K <rbrt.kafka@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>Any suggestions or recommendations on picking the right alternative
>job?

The advice I read, decades on back, on an uptown-bound #3 line in 
Manhattan was 'F u cn rd ths u cn b a scrtry nd gt a gd jb'.

DD

Get something/anything in the short term to tide you over.

While you are working that job, keep on trying new avenues.

Send at least 4 resumes out a day for various positions.

Don't write yourself off on sales or not being good with people.  You
can get a job at an Office place or Best Buy or Future Shop or some
such place in the computer department.  All a customer needs there is
information on what connector is needed for this or that.

Again think of it as just a temporary job until you can get to where
you are going.




On Apr 28, 4:41 pm, "R.K" <rbrt.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Apr 28, 11:41 am, "R.K" <rbrt.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I’ve been a computer programmer for 21 years. For some reason, and
> contrary to the so called “common wisdom”, it’s been increasingly
> difficult for me to land new contracts. My last unemployment streak is
> celebrating its 6 months anniversary next week.

"Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
management functionality. This includes moving from "regular"
employment to " temporary" (less pay, less benefits, short employment
intervals, no job security) jobs.

If you have been in programming for 21 years, then possibly you are
over 40 and that is where age discrimination begins (that is the way
the law is written and you can google on that for lots of hits).
Being that a lot of programming work has been offshored and there are
tons of laid-off, not-renewed, contract finished guys out there, then
they are all in a "spiral-to-the-bottom" competition for what is
left.

more below

> I’ve been frantically “networking”, calling old coworkers and
> recruiters, polishing, posting, mailing, emailing, faxing and handing
> my resume. So far with no results. However I’m not giving up and will
> continue doing so.
>
>  However, my numerous financial obligations, force me to pose the
> highly unpleasant and dreaded question: What if this streak goes on
> for many more months or even years?

I am now retired so thankfully I don't have to worry about this but my
heart bleeds for you and eveyone else in the same boat. I've known
quite a few people in recent years who got screwed by "the system" and
end up in Walmarts, coffee shops, car sales, etc.

Here is music I heard in my ears: I actually (no lie) talked with two
teachers at two local community colleges who taught truck driving in
1-2 month courses.. They told me that virtually every one of the
students got job offers before they finished the course. Its not a
great job and the first year is hell, but its got a better future.
Someone has to drive the trucks that bring all the farm crops to Food
Lion, etc., and all that Chinese electronics from California to your
local stores and all you have to do is compete with Mexicans, legal or
illegal and they are not in the trucks as much as the chicken
processing plants.

more below

 What if I just couldn’t get out of
> it? The answer – obviously enough – is that in order to stay afloat
> I’ll just have to get another job, ANY other job, and soon too.
>
> Unfortunately, I’m suffering from a mild strain of Anemia, so that
> rules out physically strenuous jobs – So while I can work in front of
> a monitor for 14 hours straight, I still can’t, say, work in a
> warehouse where I’d be loading/unloading trucks for hours. Even a
> worse handicap, is that I’m – despite my sincere efforts – not good at
> all with people, so I’m certainly inadequate for jobs that require
> special people skills, like sales, etc. Moreover, to cover my
> obligations, I’ll need to do at least a little better than minimum
> wage.

I do not have any magic answers for you but I sympathise with
everyone's plight: we have to pay the rent and buy food.

> What I’m really seeking advice on, is what optimal alternative jobs
> options do I really have? Naturally I know a lot about computers and
> programming, and I’m quite good at Math, Physics, Electronics and also
> know a lot about Financial and Securities markets. So how can I take
> advantage of any of that?  I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a
> technical instructor/trainer job – but I don’t know the prospects of
> finding such a job without having prior teaching experience. Any
> ideas?

Look into two year programs if you want to retrain and change careers,
but make sure you talk to their placement office and see if they have
any statistics on placement rates. Best I've heard: besides truck
driving, the other fields are as high as 90% and go down from there.
You don't want to train for something and then have a 10-20% chance of
getting a job in that subject.

> Other jobs I’ve been considering are night security guard, and gas
> forklift operator – because its easy to get the needed licenses, they
> pay (barely) more than minimum wage – but they don’t take advantage of
> my experience.

If you have bills to pay, then you'd better get something, anything,
because it looks bad on your resume to have big gaps of unemployment.

> Any suggestions or recommendations on picking the right alternative
> job? I’m looking forward to your insights and advice, especially those
> based on actual experience – and thank you.

For a bunch of computer programmers and IT guys I've known, when they
shipped a million jobs to India as over the last 4-5 years, most of
these guys spent years getting no more job offers, few to zero
interviews, and they were all sending out a thousand resumes per
year.

I'd say you'd be best off concentrating real hard on getting something
new and concentrate on things that you can get easily and practice
very hard to suck up and kiss ass if necessary.

Good luck.

With the down turn in the global economy, is it time to look else
where to live?
Is Asia the place the place to retire?
Are international skills more important than ever?
Can Teaching give you extra income without working hard?


http://www.cambodialanguagecorps.com

http://www.thailandlanguagecorps.com

http://www.vietnamlanguagecorps.com

In article <5a3c1a37-0521-40a2-9076-03301cad6909@a9g2000prl.googlegroups.com>,
Languagecorps Cambodia  <inderpal.virdee@gmail.com> wrote:

[snip]

>Can Teaching give you extra income without working hard?

I would say 'If it is being done correctly, no.'

DD

On Apr 28, 11:41 am, "R.K" <rbrt.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Any suggestions or recommendations on picking the right alternative
> job? I’m looking forward to your insights and advice, especially those
> based on actual experience – and thank you.
>

I would try different geographical locations. Some areas are dead
hopeless. Some others are still alive. Try the water in places that
are visible in terms of job postings. Keep in mind, though, that some
areas are worse than the others as far as age discrimination is
concerned.

On Apr 28, 8:41 am, "R.K" <rbrt.ka...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I’ve been a computer programmer for 21 years. For some reason, and
> contrary to the so called “common wisdom”, it’s been increasingly
> difficult for me to land new contracts. My last unemployment streak is
> celebrating its 6 months anniversary next week.
>
> I’ve been frantically “networking”, calling old coworkers and
> recruiters, polishing, posting, mailing, emailing, faxing and handing
> my resume. So far with no results. However I’m not giving up and will
> continue doing so.
>
>  However, my numerous financial obligations, force me to pose the
> highly unpleasant and dreaded question: What if this streak goes on
> for many more months or even years? What if I just couldn’t get out of
> it? The answer – obviously enough – is that in order to stay afloat
> I’ll just have to get another job, ANY other job, and soon too.
>
> Unfortunately, I’m suffering from a mild strain of Anemia, so that
> rules out physically strenuous jobs – So while I can work in front of
> a monitor for 14 hours straight, I still can’t, say, work in a
> warehouse where I’d be loading/unloading trucks for hours. Even a
> worse handicap, is that I’m – despite my sincere efforts – not good at
> all with people, so I’m certainly inadequate for jobs that require
> special people skills, like sales, etc. Moreover, to cover my
> obligations, I’ll need to do at least a little better than minimum
> wage.
>
> What I’m really seeking advice on, is what optimal alternative jobs
> options do I really have? Naturally I know a lot about computers and
> programming, and I’m quite good at Math, Physics, Electronics and also
> know a lot about Financial and Securities markets. So how can I take
> advantage of any of that?  I’ve been toying with the idea of getting a
> technical instructor/trainer job – but I don’t know the prospects of
> finding such a job without having prior teaching experience. Any
> ideas?
> Other jobs I’ve been considering are night security guard, and gas
> forklift operator – because its easy to get the needed licenses, they
> pay (barely) more than minimum wage – but they don’t take advantage of
> my experience.
>
> Any suggestions or recommendations on picking the right alternative
> job? I’m looking forward to your insights and advice, especially those
> based on actual experience – and thank you.


summary... the bottom levels are getting full up, if you are not
already established it will be a race to the bottom in those areas,
esp for anyone over 40.

My advice, become a free lance consultant or start a business that
uses your skills in a trades related apect.... industrial and HVAC
controls for example...free lances at 125 dollars per hour or
more...thats viable, no people skills required.... promote to large
building owners, mechancial and electrical contractors, and the unions
in those fields, but only for guru level work...at high pay...that way
you only have to work a few hours a week to make it.

ways to advance that.

get the relevant contractors licenses.
build a fax email list and create a news letter on the issues
learn the particular specialties... a year or so will do it
have killer brochures and cards.
get good with s simple 3d cad program... so your quotes look goog.

push the high end
take lower level work to fill in.

***

trying to compete at grunt labor with illegals will starve you to
death... hard work is easily over done
it ruins a person.

(my situation is similar but with a fraction of your advanced
education... i work about 10 hours a week, make a sufficient living...
not such a bad deal..... cold calling in a pinch brings in about 400
dollars worth of work per  day.... that will drop by 50% or so as
things tighten up..it still works though.... a job at age 67 doesnt
work at all.... apply your education to the high end trades,)





Phil scott

> "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> management functionality.


Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?

On May 11, 9:25 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> > "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> > management functionality.
>
> Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?


the man has only to rephrase his statement to include  'are
becoming'... and of course his remark was not literal, but to make the
point that with international business, labor options wide open,
business need not depend on a local labor force..so that is becoming
relatively more and more disposable in that context.

On May 11, 2:13 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> On May 11, 9:25 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> > > management functionality.
>
> > Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?

Any century in which there were "important" people and "important" is
defined as: i) the king/emperor, ii) anyone in the court of the king/
emperor (i.e. his buddies), and iii) anyone that the king or emperor
thought was important. Most people were, otherwise, unimportant,
disposable, expendable, etc.

Now, on a different tangent people need to think about _rights_ (eg.
Bill of Rights, Magna Carta). And, of course revolts, rebellions, and
revolutions.

> the man has only to rephrase his statement to include  'are
> becoming'... and of course his remark was not literal, but to make the
> point that with international business, labor options wide open,
> business need not depend on a local labor force..so that is becoming
> relatively more and more disposable in that context.

All you people need to decide that you're going to start getting
vocal, write letters to the politicos, organize your neigborhoods,
make noise, scream bloody murder!!!

When unions were stronger and we didn't have to deal with cheap
currency countries, its going to hurt us, the USA, in the long run.

On May 11, 2:13 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
> On May 11, 9:25 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> > > management functionality.
>
> > Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?
>
> the man has only to rephrase his statement to include  'are
> becoming'... and of course his remark was not literal, but to make the
> point that with international business, labor options wide open,
> business need not depend on a local labor force..so that is becoming
> relatively more and more disposable in that context.

business has never been able to afford a local labor force

business as a whole has never been able to afford.. anything

On May 12, 9:00 am, Stray Dog <straydog2...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On May 11, 2:13 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > On May 11, 9:25 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> > > > management functionality.
>
> > > Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?
>
> Any century in which there were "important" people and "important" is
> defined as: i) the king/emperor, ii) anyone in the court of the king/
> emperor (i.e. his buddies), and iii) anyone that the king or emperor
> thought was important. Most people were, otherwise, unimportant,
> disposable, expendable, etc.
>
> Now, on a different tangent people need to think about _rights_ (eg.
> Bill of Rights, Magna Carta). And, of course revolts, rebellions, and
> revolutions.
>
> > the man has only to rephrase his statement to include  'are
> > becoming'... and of course his remark was not literal, but to make the
> > point that with international business, labor options wide open,
> > business need not depend on a local labor force..so that is becoming
> > relatively more and more disposable in that context.
>
> All you people need to decide that you're going to start getting
> vocal, write letters to the politicos, organize your neigborhoods,
> make noise, scream bloody murder!!!
>
> When unions were stronger and we didn't have to deal with cheap
> currency countries, its going to hurt us, the USA, in the long run.

i strongly believe "rights" are an accident as a result of the effect
of steam power on the traditional labor equation


rights are a fluke.. a stop gap out of desparation

sort like Washington using the new militia laws to protect his whiskey
monopoly

On May 12, 9:46 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
> On May 12, 9:00 am, Stray Dog <straydog2...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On May 11, 2:13 pm, phil scott <p...@philscott.net> wrote:
>
> > > On May 11, 9:25 am, reinhardt <servicec...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
>
> > > > > "Welcome" to the 21st century "humans-as-disposable-kleenex" labor-
> > > > > management functionality.
>
> > > > Cite a century when humans weren't disposable?
>
> > Any century in which there were "important" people and "important" is
> > defined as: i) the king/emperor, ii) anyone in the court of the king/
> > emperor (i.e. his buddies), and iii) anyone that the king or emperor
> > thought was important. Most people were, otherwise, unimportant,
> > disposable, expendable, etc.
>
> > Now, on a different tangent people need to think about _rights_ (eg.
> > Bill of Rights, Magna Carta). And, of course revolts, rebellions, and
> > revolutions.
>
> > > the man has only to rephrase his statement to include  'are
> > > becoming'... and of course his remark was not literal, but to make the
> > > point that with international business, labor options wide open,
> > > business need not depend on a local labor force..so that is becoming
> > > relatively more and more disposable in that context.
>
> > All you people need to decide that you're going to start getting
> > vocal, write letters to the politicos, organize your neigborhoods,
> > make noise, scream bloody murder!!!
>
> > When unions were stronger and we didn't have to deal with cheap
> > currency countries, its going to hurt us, the USA, in the long run.
>
> i strongly believe "rights" are an accident as a result of the effect
> of steam power on the traditional labor equation
>
> rights are a fluke.. a stop gap out of desparation
>
> sort like Washington using the new militia laws to protect his whiskey
> monopoly- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

that view as with countless others is 100% correct when viewed from
its own contexts..paradigm/ whatever.    it is correct.    and as we
live within these various structures there are views that are 100%
correct within them, are correct, and can be proven correct.... that
is they are proveably and flawlessly accurate...and thats why you are
so sure your notion is correct.

you are sure it is correct because it can be observed to be correct
within the scope and range of your considerations...and thats been
true from the beginning of time apparently.

***

It is just that paradigms shift, as on Bastile day for instance, or
when the romanians hung their recent leader by his balls, or as with
the various and glorous world wide banking collapses that occur with
great regularity..... but still....you remain correct in many aspects
or all aspects depending on which view of existence you adopt...and
you remain free to adopt any you wish... it is just that these things
are both relative and in flux, and with trade offs, often not seen or
factored into the equation.


Phil Scott