🚀 go-pugleaf

In <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de> raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes:

  [background deleted]

>Finally, after half an hour or so, B had told everything and was
>in a completely puzzeled state of mind. Even though I only
>observed and listened to them, I felt also very puzzled and
>distorted afterwards.

>Later, when I was alone at home, I realized that some kind of
>magic was involved here, but I didn't know exactly what it was.
>Yes, I did ask A what he did and how he did it, but he was not
>able to tell me exactly what happened, it seems to have a lot to
>do with intuition.

My guess is that "A" has a finely developed sense for the detection
of incongruity, and the flexibility to change tactics until the
incongruity is surmounted.

Incongruity is the dissonance between one part of behavior and
another:  Simple examples include saying "Yes" and shaking the head
from side-to-side, or claiming to be comfortable while fidgeting
in the chair.

Flexibility is the ability to alter one's own behavior to do some-
thing different than what one has been doing.  If you do the same
thing, you can expect the same result.  If you do something different
you at least have the chance of eliciting a different response (e.g.,
the information "A" sought); do it enough times and it's almost
certain to work.

No apparent hypnosis at work here.

Which begs the question "Is hidden hypnosis possible?"  The answer
is *Yes,* and it is called covert hypnosis.

>Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
>extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
>was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
>much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
>Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.

>I am really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
>people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
>used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
>TV. 

Not quite the same, but similar.  Most of TV advertising operates
on the level of clever psycho-linguistics; the images often say
something quite different from the words, while the words them-
selves are loaded with presuppositions, intentional deletions of
information, etc.

-- 
--Friday                                    "One great use of words
   Carol Anne Ogdin, Principal Designer         is to hide our thoughts."
   Deep Woods Technology                                --Voltaire
     friday@well.sf.ca.us

I missed the original article in this thread.  I must therefore
respond to a partial quote.

   In article <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>,
   raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes: 
   |> Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
   |> person doesn't realize what happens?

   [ stuff deleted ]

   |> Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
   |> extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
   |> was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
   |> much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
   |> Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.
   |> m really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
   |> people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
   |> used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
   |> TV. 
   |> 	Andreas

Covert hypnotic inductions are certainly possible.  Erickson has
published many examples, as have many others.  Erickson even
recommends it in the case where a given client is clearly ambivalent,
and the ambivalence results in considerable resistance.

Not having seen the original article, I cannot comment on whether a
trance was induced in this particular case.  Hypnosis is not an
"either-or" thing; being hypnotized is not a binary variable.  The
answer to your question is probably, "To an extent".

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

In article <DLB.93Jan26102730@fanny.wash.inmet.com>, dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:
> I missed the original article in this thread.  I must therefore
> respond to a partial quote.
> 
>    In article <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>,
>    raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes: 
>    |> Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
>    |> person doesn't realize what happens?
> 
>    [ stuff deleted ]
> 
>    |> Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
>    |> extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
>    |> was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
>    |> much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
>    |> Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.
>    |> m really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
>    |> people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
>    |> used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
>    |> TV. 
>    |> 	Andreas
> 
> Covert hypnotic inductions are certainly possible.  Erickson has
> published many examples, as have many others.  Erickson even
> recommends it in the case where a given client is clearly ambivalent,
> and the ambivalence results in considerable resistance.
> 
> Not having seen the original article, I cannot comment on whether a
> trance was induced in this particular case.  Hypnosis is not an
> "either-or" thing; being hypnotized is not a binary variable.  The
> answer to your question is probably, "To an extent".
> 
> 					Dave Barton
> 					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

In article <DLB.93Jan26102730@fanny.wash.inmet.com>, dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes:
> I missed the original article in this thread.  I must therefore
> respond to a partial quote.
> 
>    In article <1k0gfkINNfbs@rs2.hrz.th-darmstadt.de>,
>    raab@vlsi.informatik.th-darmstadt.de (Andreas Raab) writes: 
>    |> Is it possible to induce a hypnotic state in a person such that the
>    |> person doesn't realize what happens?
> 
>    [ stuff deleted ]
> 
>    |> Well, can it be that A hypnotized B? I know that eye contact over
>    |> extended periods of time can induce trace, but what then? There
>    |> was a lot of body language involved, and A used his voice very
>    |> much. It reminded me at the wizard Saruman a character from "The
>    |> Lord of the Rings" who bewitched people with his voice.
>    |> m really interested in the subject, it's fasconating to watch
>    |> people interact. This "hidden hypnosis" technique seems to be
>    |> used very frequent, especially in advertising, in particular in
>    |> TV. 
>    |> 	Andreas
> 
> Covert hypnotic inductions are certainly possible.  Erickson has
> published many examples, as have many others.  Erickson even
> recommends it in the case where a given client is clearly ambivalent,
> and the ambivalence results in considerable resistance.
> 
> Not having seen the original article, I cannot comment on whether a
> trance was induced in this particular case.  Hypnosis is not an
> "either-or" thing; being hypnotized is not a binary variable.  The
> answer to your question is probably, "To an extent".
> 
> 					Dave Barton
> 					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com


It depends on how 'A' obtained the information from 'B':

1. 'A' may have used a method of indirect questioning, clever, but
   not hypnosis.
2. 'A' may have applied 'B' with acceptable suggestions causing 'B'
   to divulge the necessary info'. No trance induction, but is sometimes
   called 'waking hypnosis' - a la Bernheim and Coue.
3. 'A' could have induced trance in 'B' thus increasing suggestibility of 'B'.
   However, 'A' would still have to be careful in how he extracted the
   information from 'B'. The hypnosis part, ie trance induction, may
   include a few factors:-
   - Monotony/soothing/authoritarian tinge in voice of 'A'
   - 'A's use of confusing/contradictory/wearing statements almost
     bullying 'B' into trance. This is a classic method of hypnotic induction,
     not very pleasant or ethical though
   - Rapport/trust 'B' to 'A' (applies to 2. as well)
   - Eye contact/fascination/attention of 'B' to 'A' (applies to 2. as well)
   - 'A' envoking emotion in 'B' whilst applying the suggestions (applies to
     2. as well)

I don't think post hypnotic amnesia would apply here, no trance deepening
present.

.................... A scottish perspective.

.................... Just a few comments from your friendly I.A.H. member.

Hi,
Although a Computer Science student, I have a particular interest in this 
area also.  Has anyone read anything that was informative on the techniques 
used for covert hypnotic induction? 

All suggestions very much appreciated,

Alex Forth.

alexand@cs.rhbnc.ac.uk