Re: Hypnosis and the Soul

Thread View: alt.hypnosis

2 messages

[T] Back to Threads [V] Tree View [G] Group Articles

2 total messages Started by Steve Crabtree Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:58

#94

Author: Steve Crabtree
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 13:58

56 lines
2971 bytes

To: alt.hypnosis
From: steve.crabtree

In article <DLB.92Dec14103144@fanny.wash.inmet.com>
dlb@fanny.wash.inmet.com (David Barton) writes

DB> In article <231.3473.uupcb@synapse.org> steve.crabtree@synapse.org
DB> (Steve Crabtree) writes:

DB>    The same thought has occurred to me. If there is no unique brain
DB>    state which underlies what appears to be a unique set of
DB>    behavioural phenomena, you're left with the options of denying the
DB>    existence of hypnosis and accusing people of acting, assuming that
DB>    the states of the brain can change without affecting EEG, or with
DB>    the tantalizing possibility that hypnosis may act not on brain
DB>    but on mind (soul etc.)

DB> This may simply reflect the narrowness of your definition of what
DB> "hypnosis" is.  If trance behavior is seen as a natural phenomena,
DB> part of everyday life and occuring to everyone several times a day,
DB> and that a formal induction is simply a mechanism for gaining access
DB> to this natural skill, then some of this dilemma goes away.

I accept your broadening of the definition, but I'm not sure how it
helps unless you're suggesting that (for these informally induced
trances) there are detectable EEG changes accompanied by the same
suggestibility characteristic of a more formally induced trance.

If so, why does a formally induced trance not show these EEG changes? Is
it possible that they sometimes accompany a hypnotic trance but are not
part of whatever fundamentally constitutes a hypnotic trance?

I'd agree that it's more parsimonious to argue that changes in the
brain do take place which are not observed; is it possible to falsify
this hypothesis?

                << Experimental details omitted >>

DB> I would GREATLY appreciate more infomation about this procedure.
DB> Time, place, participants, and any sponsoring organization would be a
DB> good start.

The presentation was an informal (i.e. not sponsored) presentation at
the annual conference for the Society for Psychical Research in
September 1991. I will have to dig out the other details for you.

DB> Explicitly stating hypotheses
DB> and the expected results of the experiment, and what it means (in the
DB> example above) for a sketch to be a "remarkable match" is difficult in
DB> any rigorous way.

I think these problems have been successfully addressed in the blind
judging procedures used for Ganzfeld experiments etc. Tends to
understate the closeness of good matches, but is still sufficient to
show effects.

Re: Hypnosis and the Soul

#95

Author: David Barton
Date: Tue, 15 Dec 1992 21:59

32 lines
1991 bytes

In article <249.3473.uupcb@synapse.org> steve.crabtree@synapse.org
(Steve Crabtree) writes:

   I accept your broadening of the definition, but I'm not sure how it
   helps unless you're suggesting that (for these informally induced
   trances) there are detectable EEG changes accompanied by the same
   suggestibility characteristic of a more formally induced trance.

Much simpler than that; if hypnosis is a normal phenomenon, then we
would expect NO EEG changes (which is what we observe), beyond the
activity that is suggested to the client (alpha waves in response to
suggested relaxation, which is observed normally).  No indication of a
separate "soul", no indication of something that we are not measuring;
rather, a reflection of the fact that trance is something that happens
all the time.

   The presentation was an informal (i.e. not sponsored) presentation at
   the annual conference for the Society for Psychical Research in
   September 1991. I will have to dig out the other details for you.

If you have the time, I would appreciate it.

   I think these problems have been successfully addressed in the blind
   judging procedures used for Ganzfeld experiments etc. Tends to
   understate the closeness of good matches, but is still sufficient to
   show effects.

Hmmm.  Do you know if these are the same procedures used by the PEAR
group in their investigation of remote viewing?

					Dave Barton
					dlb@hudson.wash.inmet.com

Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads