🚀 go-pugleaf

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 21:53:32 -0700, Class_Action
<classactionlaw1@yahoo.com> wrote:

>kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Dell's Sorry History of Microphone/Soundcard Issue
>>>--------------------------------------------------
>>>
>>>Here are the selected compilations of Dell microphone/soundcard issue 
>>>posted in the Dell Dimension audio forum.  Note that the problem was 
>>>reported from the very beginning of the forum establishment in late 
>>>1999 and continuing to this day.  It makes you wonder if Dell ever 
>>>made functioning mic/soundcard.
>>
>>You have no idea what in the world you're talking about.
>>
>>Dell has used MANY different platforms in that period of
>>time.
>
>So?  Is that the cause of low mic volume problem?

It is clearly an indication that there is no such thing as a
"Dell low mic volume problem".  Rather, there is a "Windows
users don't know how to adjust windows settings, including
MIC volume, problem."


>
>> Most of them were industry standard, there was no
>>difference in the Dell implementation than you'd fine
>>assembling it yourself or getting it done at a shop, except
>>in some special cases where the user was particularly
>>specifying for an unusually well-tuned-towards-audio,
>>system, in which shielded cabling was used.  This is not
>>normal for any system and thus, it cannot be considered a
>>defect for Dell to do what everyone else did.
>>
>>FWIW, Dell does not "Make" mics or soundcards, they use
>>standardized solutions.
>
>Haven't heard of "Proprietary"? 

Yes, now name even one proprietary Dell standard for sound.
I don't think you can, but IF there is one and you name it,
then show it is common across multiple platforms and years
in Dell systems.  It isn't.  It's not a matter of odds, your
conjecture is simply invalid because you lack the knowledge
to make it.

> Isn't it well known that Dell power
>supplies, for example, are compatible only with Dell system?

Actually, no.
There were a few that were different, and as with all things
that became quite noteworthy because of the difference.
That didn't make them "many", nor "most" of the Dells sold.

Now explain why you fell a power supply is proof of audio
differences?  This is another indicator that you have no
idea, not being able to draw a Dell-specific audio
reference, but then of course you wouldn't, because there is
no Dell-specific reference, just a bunch of Dell owners that
can't change windows settings.

I'm going to hazzard a guess that there are a ton of Dell
owners who would have their text too small if they booted up
their systems at 1600 x 1200 resolution too, but do they
claim Dell is the problem or just change the font size?


>
>>>Despite all the numerous problem reports spanning many years, Dell is
>>>unconscionably not only not acknowledging the problem, but 
>>>reprehensively engages in jerking around the customers with the same 
>>>runaround tactic over these years.  [See the post on (1/29/2002)]
>>
>>What did you expect?
>>
>>Whiney users need to be jerked around sometimes.
>
>Even when 'whine' about problems even Dell acknowledged?
>
>http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=dim_audio&message.id=48561&highlight=3-16#M48561
>
>DELL-Cody, Forum Moderator:
>
>    UPDATE [3-16-04]: Information posted prior to 3/16/04 has been
>    saved and forwarded to Dell Engineering. Thank you very much for
>    your assistance in this matter.

Dell acknowledging a problem does not make it a Dell-unique
problem.  It's quite common on integrated audio with
unshielded cables inside a system, and even more common when
the audio codec supply lines aren't filtered with a linear
regulator on the board.   

If Dell acknowledges a problem with Outlook Express
infecting window if you indiscriminately open an email with
an attached virus, does that put the blame on Dell?  No.

The fact of the matter is, if you want to buy low-end parts
or have certain features, you have to accept the compromises
that come with them.  Dont' want to accept that?  Fine,
don't, but it makes no difference.


>>Fact is, anyone who's done a bit of work in analog audio
>>knows you can't just go stringing cables all over the place
>>around high speed digital equipment.  Not that it's
>>impossible, or hard, to do, but more expensive.
>
>For low mic volume problem?

Did you measure signal levels?
You write "low mic", but in fact, you have presented no
evidence to isolate the mic as being low volume rather than
some mixer setting, the absence of mic boost activated, or a
driver bug.  Dell is not to blame for a buggy driver or
windows setting that needs changed.

Since Dell does not use proprietary audio (including mic),
if your claim is correct you will find evidence of it across
all systems using same hardware, it will not be isolated to
Dell systems.  Ironically enough, that also means it's not a
"Dell problem" per se, rather than a supplier's problem.  To
suggest that mulitple audio suppliers, year after year,
continually "fix" the audio so the mic doesn't work is
unrealistic.  To suggest Dell has hacked windows to degrade
audio is similarly unrealistic.  The only area where you
might have the slightest reasonable argument is if Dell had
continually used a defective wiring harness to connect a
front-panel mic input to the sound header, but you make no
mention at all of this, and that possiblity is easily
checked by connecting mic to rear mic port instead of front.


>
>>If you want a more expensive audiophile grade system, you
>>have to buy that SPECIFIC THING, not a generic Dell, or HP,
>>or Gateway, etc, system.  You can't just go to a shop and
>>expect anything different either, you will have to clearly
>>specific your needs and determine whether anyone there is a
>>competent builder towards the end of analog audio quality.  
>
>For low mic volume problem?

Have you searched for solutions to just pointed fingers at
Dell, hoping they'll teach you how to use a computer?
That's not an accusation of your actions, it's a legitimate
question as you've not menitoned any kind of troubleshooting
on this at all, only random observations that over millions
of customers, "some", a small population has had an audio
problem or two.  Name a part of a computer where not even a
small % out of millions, have had problems.



>   I have my mic volume all the way up, the booster on, and its still
>   way too quiet.  I had to practically put the mic in my mouth.

Have you tried another mic?
Have you tried same mic with another sound card?
A key point in placing blame is identifying the problem.  I
don't see where you've done that, rather a vague "it doesn't
work, fix it Dell".  If your system is still under warranty,
AND you've tried all the general audio/mic settings tips
Google can easily find, NOT Dell-related info but rather
general audio troubleshooting, THEN you might have a more
legitimate claim that Dell needs provide some kind of
support.  They cannot be expected to configure the entire
system though, if what you wanted was a _non_generic system
configuration then buying an OEM box is the opposite of the
prudent path to take.

Did you try a newer driver?
What, EXACTLY, did you do to troubleshoot this?
Are you sure you have the mic plugged into a mic input or is
it a LINE IN?  Forget about what the case might have stamped
on it, or what the manual might say, these things are
written by mere humans.  Did you check the motherboard or
audio card manual to determine where the input jack goes?

Does turning on/off the mic boost change the recording level
at all?  If you take another sound source, like an MP3
player, with it's volume turned down VERY low, and MIC boost
off, do you get a higher signal strength?  Making sure the
input is selected, you could then gradually increase the
player volume and see if it ever becomes loud enough.  Does
it?  

That would be my first guess, that a lot of people just
plugged their MIC into a line-in jack.  LIne-in is not a mic
jack, it's for pre-amp'd sources.


>
>   I have been through every switch, slider and control with
>   XPS Advanced support at least twice. This isn't a user error.

You're better off not having them go through this with you,
as that just limits you to whatever is on their scripted
support dialog, or whatever they can think of at a moment's
notice.  You're better off tacking this methodically without
other input to distract your own train of thought because
you are the one with the system immediately in front of you.


>   I think I have seen every single volume control slider that exists
>   in the system, XP, Creative, etc.

Creative?

Well that may be part of the problem.  Did you try a newer
driver?   Older driver?   Did you check on where the audio
was interfacing with the card?  I mean hardware-wise, not a
windows control panel setting.



>
>   I have been through every switch, slider and control with
>   XPS Advanced support at least twice. This isn't a user error.
>
>   I think I have seen every single volume control slider that exists
>   in the system, XP, Creative, etc.

Well I would hope so, there aren't that many.


>
>>The funny thing is, I wonder how many people ever bothered
>>to read the manuals or seek basic audio advice on Google.
>
>Maybe Dell Techs don't either?

and?
A bit of advice- Buy a OEM system to get something pre-built
with a larger bundle of software than could be compiled for
same $ by buying separate components one-at-a-time.

Don't buy one because you expect premium tech support.
I can appreciate that you want it working, but frankly, it
is impossible for you to have paid enough that Dell could
afford good technicians.

Point is, it might be reasonable to be upset that a part of
the system doesn't work, but continually looking towards
Dell when it's already obvious they aren't helpful, does not
produce the desired result.  What do you expect from a
lawsuit?  A $9 sound card?  That's all it should take if
everything else is indeed set up correctly already.

I think your time is worth more than $9.

>
>    so i contacted Dell tech support they advised me to uninstall the
>    soundcard and reinstall it. I did that and it made no difference.

Did you use a newer / different driver?
DId you open the case and check the cables?


>
>    They told me to uninstall the windows sound recorder and reinstall
>    it, that made no difference either,

Did you mute all other recording sources and where you using
the MIC input on the rear of the card, not the line-in
input?

If so, you need to get in touch with users of this same
Creative sound card because this would be a sound-card
specific issue IF all the other things mentioned do not
cover the problem area.  Could be I've missed something,
since it's same situation as a Dell tech has, they are not
in front of your system nor know the full history of it.

>
>    they told me to uninstall the whole of windows multimedia
>    I did that and it made no difference

Is your system now entirely back to the way it was before
you had ever noticed there were any sound problems?
Does the mic still seem to work, just at too low a volume?

If you instead plug the mic into the line-in jack, does it
sound level go down (keeping in mind that again, windows
and/or Creative mixer settings may matter)?

>
>    Dell tech support insisted I reformat my hard disk and reinstall
>    everything.

Of course they did, that is a sure thing- problem gets to
the point where all the cheat sheets have been tried, then
user is instructed to format and start over.  Same with all
the OEMs, has been this way for years.  

It's not that this is necessary, but rather, a failure to
pinpoint the problem.  The check would be whether a static
OS environment  is a solution, and in some cases that does
fix things.  If you do this, you might consider throwing
another drive into the system and unplugging the original,
so if it doesn't help then you didn't lose but another 20
minutes babysitting the restoration process.