🚀 go-pugleaf

Zebee Johnstone wrote:
> In aus.computers.linux on Sun, 01 Dec 2002 16:00:53 +0800
> Mark Addinall <maddinall@iprimus.com.au> wrote:
> 
>>
>>What a load of rubbish.  Work place implementation is anything
>>other than narrow.  When I get a CV on my desk, it is always "Oh yeah,
>>he/she was on that roll-out...".  I hardly ever take notice of
>>"Certificate in...blah...blah".
>>
> 
> 
> And if the poor bugger hasn't got the experience?

Then it is hard.  Increasingly so.

> 
> If you are trying to break in, then a certificate says at least "got
> off his arse".
> 
> That's what they are - something to distinguish entry level people
> from each other.  

I disagree.  Especially with the courses mentioned.  No-one
hires a systems administrator with no commercial experience.
No-one.

The better way to join the industry is to join as an entry
level programmer, and do a few years at that before deciding
on a Sys admin path.

> 
> They are also helpful to those trying to change career "I have done
> these non-IT things that show I am useful as an employee, and this
> shows I can absorb info about computers too"

I'm not saying they are bad.  Just not much use.  Certainly
not worth thousands and thousands of dollars.  This scam has
been going on forever.  I remember some mates of mine paying
a royal bribe for a Computer Power course years ago.
Same deal then "How terribly uninteresting".

> 
> Major hassle is that there are very few entry level positions.
> 
> And a hell of a lot of entry level applicants!

You have both of those points correct.


> 
> Best way to get an IT job is by word of mouth, by someone else saying
> "yeah, they know their stuff, worth the chance".  That could be
> someone in the industry already, it might be someone where you work
> right now who knows you want to do IT and there's a vacancy in your
> company for someone.   Many employers prefer to use employees they
> already have rather than go to the difficulty and expense of hiring
> someone.  Especially if that person has already been doing IT stuff
> for them, acting, unpaid...

Well, I got my first position in IT by being persistent and offering
to work for free.  I got the job I was after (some 23 years ago) and
not for free.  A junior wage which I quickly upped.  Last year as
a big important manager I met a nice bloke who was doing some sort
of a course and was working in my department for free.  He was a nurse
and got tired of it.  I never saw his certificate, but talked to him
to get a feel for what he wanted to do.  I recommended that the
department offer him a position in entry level support.

> 
> If you can't do that, and you don't have the runs on the board, then
> work on getting non-IT runs.  Work on that famous "excellent
> communicator" thing.  "I have written documentation for these open
> source projects, I am a member of Toastmasters to improve my ability
> to do presentations and to inform non-technical people, my volunteer
> work at the football club has shown me how to deal with people and get
> them working together" sort of thing.
> 
> You want to stand out.  you want to have them think "OK, this one is
> different from the other 300".

I don't have a problem with any of that.  Join a club, AUUG.  Meet
people.  Work on some open source projects.  Christ, I'm too scared
to add-up the pro-bono work I do in a year.

> 
> Not all jobs are in huge companies.  Lots of them are in small ones.

No shit?

> And even the huge companies can be attracted by a resume that's not a
> carbon copy of all the other ones.

Obviously.

Mark Addinall.


> 
> 
> Zebee