🚀 go-pugleaf

(coming into this a bit late...but I hope it's still worthwhile
reading)

The BrewSter wrote:

: I agree with you. I have two issues with this perspective:

: 1) Best/Verio advertises Usenet to attract customers. They 
: especially advertised the number of newsgroups they carried, and 
: the care they took to try and get all the messages for all those 
: newsgroups.  While your position (which I agree with) is 
: realistic assumption, I'd like to submit that breaking their word 
: with customers should NOT be part of their business model. My 
: getting a SuperNews account does not address this issue. 

It's an "afterthought checklist item", not a major selling point.
In any event, you're not making any breathtaking discoveries here.

I thought you cared about getting reliable Usenet service.  It
seems you really care about getting reliable Usenet service
from Verio.  Whining about it here just annoys the other
denziens.

: 2) There is a traffic issue with Usenet that a SuperNews 
: account does not address in any case. It's a little hard for me 
: to describe, so work with me. 

Do we have to? :)

: Usenet conversations work two ways. If I have a SuperNews account 
: that gets me, say, 95% of all the messages posted to a particular 
: newsgroup, but most of the people I correspond with are working 
: with ISPs that give THEM only 2/3 or 1/2 of the messages; then 
: those other posters will often miss my messages. It will be very 
: hard to carry on a conversation with them. The fact that I have a 
: SuperNews account will not help. For Usenet to work, ALL ISPs 
: carrying Usenet need to maintain some adequate minimum standard 
: message load per newsgroup carried, or Usenet discussions will 
: fall apart. 

I'm sure I'm not going to be the first one to point this out to
you...but I can't wait...

So you're saying that since OTHER people use servers that drop
messages or experience propogation delays somehow means that
you're stuck using Verio?   Come again?

I think you're really saying that it's not worth it for you to
do anything about, and you're simply bewailing (and annoying
everyone else while doing so) the current state of affairs.

: I am not asking BVerio to provide a multi-terabyte level service: 
: Just live up to their advertising (which is legally binding), and 
: take minimal care to maintain the service. I suggest to you, that 
: Verio is not maintaining their service at all. If we were 
: passengers on a 747 and not customers of an ISP, we would have 
: crashed by now.  

Let's not go there...that's not a plane really worth hijacking...
it's more like taking a model airplane and crashing it into your 
house.

: I am not a "low margin" customer. They charge me more than twice 
: what their compeditors do for my account, and that ought to be 
: more enough to maintain the level of service I signed up to 
: receive. 

Unless, you're paying them thousands of dollars per month (which you 
can, if you really wanted to, not that they'd necessarily treat you 
any better), whether or not you're using a service you think they're
making massive amounts of money on doesn't really matter.  You
somehow think that a greater percentage of your 30 DOLLAR goes
to Usenet than what really is the case.

: I am not "among a handful" of customers. There are probably five 
: times as many Usenet users today as there were, say, five or six 
: years ago. While Usenet hasn't grown the way the web has; it 
: still has grown a lot.  

Of course, there is some validity to what you are saying.  But take
a close look at what part of Usenet has been growing.  Hint:  PORN
WAREZ MP3.  And did I say, SPAM SPAM SPAM?  The amount of participation 
in text groups has probably scaled linearly, if that.  Which is still
respectable.

But see, Verio does not care.  And since you've identified other sites
that give their users only 2/3 or 1/2 of the messages, there are clearly
a lot of sites that don't either.  You know why?  Because administrating
Usenet is a major chore.  I am lucky that I escaped having to do it.
You know why?  Because PORN WAREZ MP3s SPAM SPAM SPAM makes a hash
out of your systems, in a matter of minutes in some cases.  Because 
people who complain to you about Usenet are a particularly whiny breed 
of luser.  Because the software that provides news access/transit is 
arcane, given the average skill level of your typical admin these days.  
Even the companies that specialize in Usenet have their work cut out for 
them.

: I still appreciate web hosting problems here. I know that 
: business accounts have much larger problems with Verio than I do 
: as an individual. My real web site is long gone from here, but I 
: still appreciate reading this group -- I learn a lot from the 
: rest of you.

I'm sure the compliment doesn't extend to me, which is fine.

Well, you don't have to worry about other ISPs giving you only 2/3 or 
1/2 of best.* messages...because only users of nntp1.ba.best.com
or servers linked to the nntp transit servers see best.* anyway.

And if it wasn't for best.*, there would be no "rest of you".

: I also appreciate the folks who maintain the Usenet Servers at 
: Best and Verio. They do their best, and more than their best. 
: Their jobs get harder and harder every month. There is little 
: they can do about complaints like mine. If Best/Verio addressed 
: their concerns as Admins, then my complaints would probably 
: evaporate.

It's really more like "folk"...if that.  Usenet at Best after Rone
was one of our "hot potatoes"...basically, it was what the boss asked
you to take care of.

I think it's a bit disingenuous to slip this last part about
appreciating the folks who maintain the service given that you're
really not happy with the result.  You're also assuming that the
admin(s) care, they're probably even more apathetic than Verio at
this point. :-)   It's really better not to worry about them at all, 
since you're overall thesis is that your 30 DOLLAR high margin account 
should be sufficient to get good Usenet service.

But the account you have is not a current going concern.  It is
legacy, and as you have read elsewhere, Verio has been working
for years on migrating the platform somewhere else.  

See if you can find the words "Usenet" and "NNTP" on the following
pages:

http://www.verio.com/products/hosting/web/plans/expresstartintro.cfm
http://www.verio.com/products/access/dialup.cfm

Nobody is going to dispute your findings that Usenet at Verio SUX.

However, we will be annoyed by any attempt to convince them to
make it worthwhile, because frankly, you are wasting your time.
(we've seen other 'save Best from Verio' campaigns fall completely
on their face, you see)

--Sam