🚀 go-pugleaf

----------------------------Original message----------------------------
I have been watching the "dialogue" between Mikel and Toto and I
feel it has got to an unacceptable point.
This list, like all other lists, is a public forum. Many people watch
the list without necessarily putting items into its stream. However
those people form opinions about the group from the material that is
sent by the contributors. Hence it is not difficult to imagine many
people have formed an opinion  about basques and especially
basque culture and behaviour as manifest in this list, as rude and
insulting. By implication each of us who is a supporter of this group,
whether because we contribute or enjoy this tenuous connection of
people from all around the world, is tarred with the brush that is
applicable to Mikel and Toto. In other words, Mikel &  Toto, your
behaviour reflects badly on all of us.

As well, the list is a public forum and if you wish to trade insults the
approriate means would be for you to deal directly with each other
and not air you abuses in public. After all you have each other's
email address and can communicate directly. Both of you  should
note that and apology accompanied by an excuse is not an apology,
its just an excuse.

As this is my first posting to the list I should introduce myself. I
have been reading the materials on the list for the last 2 months and
enjoyed it immensely (with the odd exception). I am an Australian
who lives in New Zealand. I spent 7 months in Donosti in 1992
working on some archaeological problems in Basque
metrology/navigation/astronomy. At the same time I attended
classes at HABE (2hours a day) to learn euskara. Then last year I
returned to spend 2 months at the Maizpide school in Lazkao. My
proficiency in euskara is roughly at the reading level of an 8-10year
old. My progress has been slow in part because I do not know any
Spanish and only schoolboy french so I'm trying to learn euskara
straight from english and both my  classes were full of  Spanish
speakers. Now that I am back home my own progress is from
reading the items of this list and struggling with the help of the
dictionaries of Linda White and Gorka Aluestia to decode them. I
have a few books and listen a great deal to the collection of music
I've brought back with me. So progress is incremental but I hope not
negative.
I am a computer scientist turned partial  linguist and have a number
of great friends at EHU, Donosti in Informatika Fakultatea in the
linguistic section.

A note to readers of this list who have no experience of interacting
with basques. The inconsiderate behaviour of Mikel in mocking Toto
and  the subsequent barrage of abusive responses is something I
have never experienced with any basque I have ever dealt with. I
have found basques wonderful and delightful. Lovers of fine food,
dancing, music and poetry. They have always been enormously
supportive of my efforts, no matter how amateurish they were, to
learn euskara to the extent that  they send me books, always work
hard to make sense out of my most abherent grammar with the most
appalling pronounciation. People have accepted me into their
homes as a valued guest despite knowing nothing about me except
that I am learning euskara. I can't speak highly enough of the
generosity and considerateness they have given me in giving me
food and shelter and taking me into their family and social  lives
and teaching me that people can relate in a very different positive
way compared to the self-centeredness of my own culture.

Mesua euskal herritarrara dizuet.  Donstiko nire lagunek "euskara"
inglesen esan dute, ez dute "basque". I like their form better
because it is more precise which for me captures an essence of
euskara compared to english.

oraindik denok ondo ibili
Jon
Prof Jon Patrick
Dept. of Information Systems     BH 64 -6- 350 5552
Massey University                AH ?
Palmerston North                 Fax 64-6- 350 5611
New Zealand