🚀 go-pugleaf

Jose Mallea Olaetxe wrote:

> 
> On Fri, 9 Oct 1998, Inaki Agirre Perez wrote:
> 
> > > Bascongadas, teoriz, ez al da "euskaldundua"? (Claudio Sanchez Albornoz'ek
> > > hala zioen behintzat).
> >
> > Tira, historialari batzuek Baskondagak jatorriz IEarrak zirela eta
> > iparretik edo Nafarroatik euskalduduak izan direla uste zuten (edo
> > dute), eta hortik Vascongado izena. Baina oin txikiko teoria historikoa
> > da. Gainera, Romanzado/Bascongado bikoteak berez ez du jatorria
> > aipatzen, hitz egiten duten hizkuntza baizik. Hortik, Romanzado=Erdal
> > Herria eta Bascongado=Euskal Herria. Hala eta guztiz ere, gazteleraz
> > Mendebaldeko Euskadi bezala erabili dute, mende honetan behitzat.
> >
> > Inaki
> >

Bizkaia ez zen Euskara teoria ez da "espanyatar txarraen" bakarrik.
Adibidez Larry’k berbera esan zuen lista onetan igaz. Larry’k arrazoiak
bi ziren: Bizkaian, ibaiaren izenak eta lekuren izenak maiz
indoeuropeatarrak agertzen zaigu eta Bizkaian Aquitanian inscriptiorik
ez dira. Ni ez nengoen adoz Larry’arekin eta eztabaida txikia eduki
genuen orregatik zerrenda onetan. Eman dago arazoaren egoera

Bizkaia euskalduna zela Erromatarren denboretan:Caro Baroja, Javier
Lomas, Barandiaran eta Francisco Presedo

Ez zela: Schulten, Gomez-Moreno, Menedez-Pidal eta Larry

Mitxelena eta Gorrotxategi: ez esan digute

Bosch Gimpera: Bardulak (Guipuzkoa) Euskaldunak ziren, Autrigonak eta
Caristiak Indoeuropeatarrak ziren banya an bizitzen zirenak  Euskaldunak
ziren

Emen aurkituko ditzakezue oni buruz textu labur zerbait. Ere bai e-mail
luzea daukat erreferentzia besteekin eta nai duenarengana bidaliko dut. 

Francisco Javier Lomas: These areas (i.e. present day Bizcay and
Guipozkoa) were inhabited by non indo-european populations that were
keeping the older cantabro-pyrenaic culture from paleolithic times

Francisco Presedo. The Ilergetes according to Maluquer are not Iberians
but they had influences from the Iberian culture but not older than the
IV century. They lived from the Ebro up towards the noth including Osca
(Huesca) and Ilerda (Lleida). Vardulos, Caristions and Autrigones should
be put together with the Cantabrian as non-Indoeuropean remains.

Gorrotxategi: My understanding is that the works of Mitxelena and myself
suport seriously in favour of the presence of people speaking Basque in
the Vasconic area of Navarra, Aquitaine and Huesca towards Zaragoza

Teresa Etxenike: The thesis that the Basque language was taken to
Bizkaia and Guipuzkoa in post-roman times was supported by Schulten,
Gomez-Moreno, and Menedez-Pidal but Caro Baroja disagrees. He said: This
is very difficult to support because the Vasconia of the Romans
(Navarra) was strongly romanized, and the area of Bizkaia and Guipuzkoa
was very little romanized. It does not make sense that the only non
Indo-European language of Europe went from an area strongly romanized
and where latin was spoken in roman times to the area that was the least
romanized

Roger Collins The Basques

The Iron age includes two waves or establishment. It is represented only
by sites situated well away from the mountains and principally found in
the Ebro valley an to th enorth of the Adour. Virually no Iron Age I.E.
INDO-EUROPEAN remains in the formere dolmen regionof the mountainous
spine of the Pyrenees.

Bosch-Gimpera:

The Belgae entered in Spain throught the western passes of the Pyrenee.
The Sussetani could have gone through Roncesvalles pass. Others went
closer to the coasline like the Germanic Nerviones. They left their name
to the river. Guipuzkoa was setled by the Origeviones. The Deva valley
(celtic name) was taken by the also Celtic Caristian, but all these
groups were re-absorved by the Basque-Pyreneeans. Nevertheless the
Bardulians were Basques.