🚀 go-pugleaf

[From Rick Marken (990504.1250)]

Me:

> If you want to say that, according to PCT, a coercee can stop
> coercion by simply adopting the goals of the coercer, then you
> will be making PCT very popular with people who want to control
> other people's behavior (coercers).>

Kenny Kitzke (990504.1230EDT) --

> Come on Rick, can't you just give in to a different definition
> of coercion?

Sure I could. I would just feel that my sense of decency (to
say nothing of my understanding of the nature of control) was
violated if I had to say that there is no coercion if I give
in and do what some bully (coercer) wants (so that my goals
are now aligned with his). This violates my sense of decency
because I don't like to think that I have improved the bully's
image by being defeated by him. This also violates my
understanding of control because I know that the bully is
_still_ controlling my behavior (coercing me) even though he
doesn't have to do anything about it at the moment (just as
a driver is still controlling the position of the car even
though he doesn't have to turn the wheel to get the car on
course at the moment).

You, yourself, seemed to realize that coercion can be occurring
even when the coercer need take no action (force) to keep
the coercee behaving as the coercer wants. You said:

> The coercer must be able and intend to intervene with
> overwhelming force if the observable action(s) of the other
> person is/are not what the coercer wants

This is precisely right. The coercer is always coercing
because he is always able to intervene with overwhelming
force if the observable actions of the other person are not
what the coercer wants. If the coercee is doing what the
coercer wants and then shifts to not doing what the coercer
wants, you will see the coercer act to restore the coercee's
behavior to what the coercer wants.  If the coerer does _not_
act in this way then he is not a coercer, In this case the
coercee's behavior is not under control and the coercee can
do whatever he wants around this non- coercer.

Best

Rick
--
Richard S. Marken                 Phone or Fax:  310 474-0313
Life Learning Associates         e-mail: rmarken@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~rmarken