Article View: bit.software.international
Article #487Re: I Need i18n Help
From: Glenn Adams
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1993 05:23
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1993 05:23
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7314 bytes
Date: Sun, 30 May 93 09:43:17 +0200 From: Dale Stipe <dstipe@ips.iacd.honeywell.com> [translation vs. localization] Fully automated translation of embedded text in programs is not currently possible; some automated translation is possible, however the quality is not sufficient to depend on it completely. On the other hand, automated translation systems may be useful as tools to be used in the localization process. However, their expense (and complexity of use) is prohibitive. The most useful tool for localizers is a multi-lingual terminology data- base. Again, these are rather expensive and usually tuned to particular sublanguages (e.g., medicine, aeronautics, etc.), and are often tied to particular language pairs, e.g., (German/English, Japanese/English, etc.) Are there any experts out there that can provide a step-by-step guide to i18n? Most experts are tuned into particular platforms and the solutions those platforms provide, if any at all. There are few experts who know all the (different) solutions on different platforms. I just got the XPG4 document set to see what it has to offer. You should be aware that X/Open is in the process of (yet again) revising its approach to I18N. They recently published what is called a "Distributed Internationalization Services Snapshot" (DISS) which will eventually be turned into the I18N facility of XPG5 (at least this is my understanding). In the DISS is introduced the notion of an opaque text object which supports stateful encodings and other types of functionality, e.g., each object is associated with an attribute object which can store the locale in which the text object is to be interpreted. The point here is that there is still a lot of development going on in supplying basic substrate solutions to I18N problems, a process which I see continuing for 3-5 more years at least. Are there any books that people have read that give a short concise definition of an approach to solving the i18n development problem? Not particularly. However, I am aware of a couple of books being written that do provide much more information than is currently available. I don't expect them to be finished before the end of this year or early next year. A couple of books available now are the "Digital Guide to Designing International Software" by Digital Press, and "Global Software" by Dave Taylor, published by Springer-Verlag. The former is oriented towards DEC's solutions; the latter is fairly high-level, and gets into market issues; however, it does cover some material on locales and related processing functions found in the XPG3 and POSIX world. In the Macintosh world, you can find a text called "Macintosh Worldwide Development - Guide to System Software." It covers the MacOS Script Manager and related functions. Many of the Unicode consortium's members are working on various aspects of supporting I18N through the use of the Unicode Worldwide Character Set (ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993, UCS2 form). I expect them to be publishing API guides and the like for their customers which concern solutions for supporting Unicode. As for X11R5's support, it is oriented primarily at two things (1) making use of locale bindings to determine the interpretation of character strings, e.g., strings in resource files or resource databases, (2) providing a FontSet mechanism for associating multiple X11 fonts together for displaying text encoded with portmanteau style encodings, e.g., EUC, UJIS, ISO 2022, etc, and (3) providing an Input Method mechanismm for supporting the input of Chinese, Japanese, and Korean text. One of the major missing components of X11R5 is the lack of Output Methods, which are needed to effectively support the display of Arabic, Indic (Devanagari, Tamil, etc.), SE Asian, and other scripts which require more complex mappings from characters to glyphs at output time. [For some strange reason, the X people and the X/Open people don't seem to understand this latter process, and, instead, have assumed that input methods would handle this mapping at input time. However, this assumption is completely wrong!] As an I18N expert, I would say that the biggest problems in I18N are (in order): 1. Proliferation of multiple character set and encoding standards and the lack of a common interchange form. 2. Lack of embedded writing system (language & orthography) tags in character data. [You need this to tell whether an <A> is an English A, a French A, a Spanish A, etc.] Such tags are independent of locale tags since they may vary in a single string, e.g., a multilingual string. 3. Lack of an adequate API for supporting the full needs of I18N, and, the proliferation of multiple, incompatible APIs across differnt platforms. 4. Lack of high quality non-Roman fonts, and lack of font technology such as Postscript and TrueType, to adequately describe the needs of these fonts. 5. Lack of ancilliary standards such as Keyboard Layouts, per-Language Cultural Requirements, etc. The most pernicious of the problems, #1 above, can now be solve fairly well thanks to the new ISO/IEC 10646-1:1993 Universal Character Set standard (and Unicode, the more fully specified 2-byte form of this new standard). However, problems remain in the actual use of Unicode; e.g., the possibility of having a NUL octet embedded in a 2-byte character encoding. [In Unicode, a coded character must be interpreted as a full 16-bit wide character, and not as a string of octets such as are found in multi-byte encodings like JIS.] Item #2 above is just starting to be addressed, and it will be some time before general solutions are available here. The same for #5. Item #3 is getting attention from a number of places; however, there is not much commonality in the solutions being proposed. Item #4 is now much better since Monotype and Linotype have converted their non-Roman collections to PostScript Type 1, and since many new good fonts are coming out of Asia for supporting CJK in PostScript and TrueType. However, new technology in the font standards themselves will be some time in coming, although new extensions to TrueType for addressing non-Roman fonts are well under way. I hope the above has helped some, although they may not be the kind of answers you are looking for. Glenn Adams Metis Technology, Inc. Tel: +1 617 868 8010 358 Windsor Street Fax: +1 617 868 8089 Cambridge, MA 02141 USA
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X-Google-Language: ENGLISH,ASCII-7-bit X-Google-Thread: 110cdc,e5fc5287e7c4d3c6 X-Google-Attributes: gid110cdc,public X-Google-ArrivalTime: 1993-06-09 06:35:40 PST Newsgroups: bit.software.international Path: arc1-ca.pugleaf.net!gmd.de!newsserver.jvnc.net!howland.reston.ans.net!paladin.american.edu!news.univie.ac.at!blekul11!alijku11!aci.cvut.cs!cis.vutbr.cz!insoft-l@cis.vutbr.cz From: Glenn Adams <glenn@metis.com> Subject: Re: I Need i18n Help Date: Wed, 9 Jun 1993 05:23:24 GMT Message-ID: <1993Jun9.052324.8691@cis.vutbr.cz> Approved: insoft-l-moderator@cis.vutbr.cz Sender: insoft-l@cis.vutbr.cz Reply-To: <insoft-l@cis.vutbr.cz> Originator: insoft-l@cis.vutbr.cz Organization: Technical University of Brno, Czech Republic Lines: 127