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5 total messages Started by Louis Leclerc Fri, 06 Aug 1993 17:16
Re: High Ottawa housing prices due to land cartel?
#84
Author: Louis Leclerc
Date: Fri, 06 Aug 1993 17:16
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Louis Leclerc writes...

>     Ottawa seems to be a bit unusual as a Canadian city, because it is small
>sized, is not near a "desirable" location (ie. sunny beaches...), yet has
>relatively high housing prices and high dwelling density for a city this 
>size. It also has a much higher percentage of high rise appartment buildings 
>and condominiums than one would also expect for a city this size.


rrosch@bnr (RROSCH) responds...
>Subject: OTTAWA REALESTATE PRICES
>
>There was an article a few years ago in the local paper on exactly this
>topic. The gist was that the four big real estate developers of this area
>had bought development rights on virtually all Ottawa land, right down
>to Kemptville. Amangst themselves, they manipulated the market to squeeze
>out the last penny, whatever the market would bear, and then some.
>What does not help is that the average civil servant is a meek and obedient
>creature and will without question pay the price that is asked. That is
>why gasoline and other commodities are more expensive here than anywhere
>else in Canada.


Is there really truth to this? I heard it once before, but dismissed it, but
now that I hear it again I'm not so sure....Does anyone have anything to back 
this up?

Assuming that a cartel is operating...I make the (possibly unfounded) 
presumptions:

Housing prices/appt rents seem to run about 75% to 85% higher than they should
be for a city this size and location. It would seem that if a land cartel is
really operating in Ottawa, as may be the case, why aren't people complaining
about it? Losses due to this must add on the order of many thousands of 
dollars of extra costs to people's mortgages and rents *each year* (ie. way
more loss than the GST, or the social contract which everyone is complaining
so much about).

I would have expected the public service unions to really jump on this, as if
they were able to bust the cartel, real wage gains for Ottawa public servants
would jump overnight, making up for any decreases due to the "social contract".
The same goes for major private employers in the area. If housing prices were
lowered to their natural non-cartel levels, companies could pay employees less
money, and also attract/retain good employees as a good standard of living 
would be possible for people living in the city compared to other cities in
Canada (ie. people could afford to buy much nicer houses in Ottawa, or get a
house period...)

Similar claims can be made for the gas cartel (well documented in "The Ottawa 
Business Quarterly 1993"), though losses to citizens of Ottawa are less than 
would be due to this supposed' housing cartel.


L. Leclerc
-- 
<><>
These opinions are my own. The do not necessarily represent those of 
Bell-Northern Research.
Re: High Ottawa housing prices due to land cartel?
#85
Author: Michael Baudais
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 17:08
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>>>>> "leclercl" == Louis Leclerc <leclercl@bmerh136.bnr.ca> writes:

  leclercl> Assuming that a cartel is operating...I make the (possibly
  leclercl> unfounded) presumptions:

  leclercl> Housing prices/appt rents seem to run about 75% to 85%
  leclercl> higher than they should be for a city this size and
  leclercl> location. It would seem that if a land cartel is really
  leclercl> operating in Ottawa, as may be the case, why aren't people
  leclercl> complaining about it? Losses due to this must add on the
  leclercl> order of many thousands of dollars of extra costs to
  leclercl> people's mortgages and rents *each year* (ie. way more
  leclercl> loss than the GST, or the social contract which everyone
  leclercl> is complaining so much about).

But what would the loss be to all those people who see their house
price drop by 75%?  What percentage of people who inhabit the city own
their own homes?

The people who will stand to gain by complaining are renters (a
sizable chunk of the population) and home buyers (trivial amounts,
relatively) from outside of Ottawa, or who are buying their first
house.

Mike

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Baudais          | These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily
Internet: baudais@bnr.ca | represent those of BNR.
Re: High Ottawa housing prices due to land cartel?
#87
Author: Michael Baudais
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 17:18
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>>>>> "leclercl" == Louis Leclerc <leclercl@bmerh136.bnr.ca> writes:

  leclercl> Assuming that a cartel is operating...I make the (possibly
  leclercl> unfounded) presumptions:

  leclercl> Housing prices/appt rents seem to run about 75% to 85%
  leclercl> higher than they should be for a city this size and
  leclercl> location. It would seem that if a land cartel is really
  leclercl> operating in Ottawa, as may be the case, why aren't people
  leclercl> complaining about it? Losses due to this must add on the
  leclercl> order of many thousands of dollars of extra costs to
  leclercl> people's mortgages and rents *each year* (ie. way more
  leclercl> loss than the GST, or the social contract which everyone
  leclercl> is complaining so much about).

But what would the loss be to all those people who see their house
price drop by 75%?  What percentage of people who inhabit the city own
their own homes?

The people who will stand to gain by complaining are renters (a
sizable chunk of the population) and home buyers (trivial amounts,
relatively) from outside of Ottawa, or who are buying their first
house.

Mike

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Baudais          | These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily
Internet: baudais@bnr.ca | represent those of BNR.
Re: High Ottawa housing prices due to land cartel?
#86
Author: Marc Donovan
Date: Mon, 09 Aug 1993 17:40
34 lines
2387 bytes
In article <BAUDAIS.93Aug9120852@bmerha4b.x400gate.bnr.ca> baudais@x400gate.bnr.ca (Michael Baudais) writes:
>>>>>> "leclercl" == Louis Leclerc <leclercl@bmerh136.bnr.ca> writes:
>
>  leclercl> Assuming that a cartel is operating...I make the (possibly
>  leclercl> unfounded) presumptions:
>
>  leclercl> Housing prices/appt rents seem to run about 75% to 85%
>  leclercl> higher than they should be for a city this size and
>  leclercl> location. It would seem that if a land cartel is really
>  leclercl> operating in Ottawa, as may be the case, why aren't people
>  leclercl> complaining about it? Losses due to this must add on the
...snip...
>
>But what would the loss be to all those people who see their house
>price drop by 75%?  What percentage of people who inhabit the city own
>their own homes?
>
>The people who will stand to gain by complaining are renters (a
>sizable chunk of the population) and home buyers (trivial amounts,
>relatively) from outside of Ottawa, or who are buying their first
>house.
>

Don't forget all the people who intend to KEEP their homes, and would
definitely benefit by a lowering of their property value for tax
reasons.

<marc>


-- 
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Marc Donovan      donovan@bnr.ca  [Voice: (613) 765-2868 Fax: (613) 763-9250]
---- Disclaimer: I am the only one responsible for my opinions.
Re: High Ottawa housing prices due to land cartel?
#89
Author: Lorne Gutz
Date: Tue, 10 Aug 1993 17:55
48 lines
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In article <BAUDAIS.93Aug9120852@bmerha4b.x400gate.bnr.ca> baudais@x400gate.bnr.ca (Michael Baudais) writes:
>>>>>> "leclercl" == Louis Leclerc <leclercl@bmerh136.bnr.ca> writes:
>
>  leclercl> Assuming that a cartel is operating...I make the (possibly
>  leclercl> unfounded) presumptions:
>
>  leclercl> Housing prices/appt rents seem to run about 75% to 85%
>  leclercl> higher than they should be for a city this size and
>  leclercl> location. It would seem that if a land cartel is really
>  leclercl> operating in Ottawa, as may be the case, why aren't people
>  leclercl> complaining about it? Losses due to this must add on the
>  leclercl> order of many thousands of dollars of extra costs to
>  leclercl> people's mortgages and rents *each year* (ie. way more
>  leclercl> loss than the GST, or the social contract which everyone
>  leclercl> is complaining so much about).
>
>But what would the loss be to all those people who see their house
>price drop by 75%?  What percentage of people who inhabit the city own
>their own homes?
>
>The people who will stand to gain by complaining are renters (a
>sizable chunk of the population) and home buyers (trivial amounts,
>relatively) from outside of Ottawa, or who are buying their first
>house.
>
>Mike
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>Michael Baudais          | These opinions are my own, and do not necessarily
>Internet: baudais@bnr.ca | represent those of BNR.


Now if you have been follow this thread and believe it try
and explain the following:

  1) why are house prices even higher in the areas just
outside the green belt such as Barhaven, Manotick, Richmond,
Orleans, Gloucester, Kanata, and Stittsville?

  2) why are house prices just as high as those in Ottawa in
towns up to 50 Km out. eg Emburn, Almonte, Carlton Place or Arnprior?

  3) why have the house prices in Ottawa been stable for
more then 50 years with no radical up or downs? ( in other
words the cartel has been in affect for more than 50 years)


	Lorne
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