🚀 go-pugleaf

"Brian Daily" <daily.brian@gmail.com.nomaps> wrote in message 
news:133ua29eh1g72ssfvbe3qjb163hdvb2t6p@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 08 Jul 2006 00:25:27 GMT, "Arved Sandstrom" 
> <asandstrom@accesswave.ca>
> wrote:
>
>>"Brian Daily" <daily.brian@gmail.com.nomaps> wrote in message
>>news:lkata2hfnviflkak2253njpksqeidalmch@4ax.com...
>>> http://icstaines.icnetwork.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17346232&method=full&siteid=50102&headline=mp-seeks-afghan-troops-recall-name_page.html
>>>
>>> British troops in Afghanistan should be withdrawn to barracks until a
>>> clear
>>> political strategy has been agreed, a Labour former armed forces 
>>> minister
>>> has
>>> argued.
>>>
>>> Doug Henderson warned that soldiers lives must not be put at risk in the
>>> absence
>>> of "direct and immediate purpose".
>>>
>>> And he suggested that an effective military strategy would only be
>>> achieved on
>>> the back of an effective political one.
>>>
>>> Defence Secretary Des Browne told MPs on Thursday that he is urgently
>>> considering requests for extra troops in Afghanistan.
>>>
>>> His announcement followed the death of the sixth British serviceman to 
>>> be
>>> killed
>>> in the troubled Helmand province in the past month.
>>>
>>>
>>> Story continues Continue story
>>> ADVERTISEMENT
>>>
>>> In an interview for GMTV's Sunday Programme, to be broadcast this 
>>> weekend,
>>> Mr
>>> Henderson said: "First of all we're getting bogged down and secondly, 
>>> it's
>>> not
>>> clear what the strategy is.
>>>
>>> "I don't think it's clear to the world community, I don't think it's 
>>> clear
>>> to
>>> the insurrectionaries in Afghanistan and it probably isn't clear to our
>>> troops
>>> either."
>>>
>>> He added: "I think the United Nations needs to look at the political
>>> situation
>>> again. There needs to be a clear political strategy."
>>>
>>> Mr Henderson, MP for Newcastle upon Tyne North, told GMTV: "Once we have 
>>> a
>>> political strategy it will then be much clearer what the military 
>>> strategy
>>> needs
>>> to be to reinforce that."
>>>
>>> He continued: "I think until a political strategy has been worked out 
>>> and
>>> agreed
>>> by those who need to agree to it then, in some senses, there should be a
>>> withdrawal of British troops, to barracks at least, and the other NATO
>>> troops."
>>
>>This may stun you to your boots, but at this point, I don't think Mr
>>Henderson is necessarily wrong. In fact, I have concerns about what
>>Canadians and Americans and other forces are doing there at the moment. In
>>particular, I do wonder whether or not our presence there is not actually
>>creating a problem that would not exist otherwise.
>>
>>I believe that the Taliban and others of their ilk are a genuine military
>>target - I'm not convinced that tens of thousands of Western troops are
>>quite the right answer to that.
>>
> Arved, there are many avid right wing supporters of our troops that 
> realize the
> Afghanistan mission is seriously off the rails.
> Rather than admit that they are just holding their breath franticly hoping
> someone, ANYONE will rescue the mission.
> ALL the NATO countries with common sense leadership are declining to get
> involved. It Canada, the US and Britain, that's it.
>
> I EXPECTED/Predicted from the day Harper became Prime Minister that OUR 
> Canadian
> forces would start fucking up big time trying to impress the US.
> They have actually surpassed my worst case scenario.
> Canada has almost single handedly made the situation in Afghanistan worse. 
> The
> bragging by our military brass, the contempt they showed for their Afghan 
> enemy,
> their jackboot tactics among villagers, and their over all incompetence 
> have
> created levels of hate towards NATO and Canada unprecedented in 
> Afghanistan
> since the Soviets were there.
>
> NATO knows Canada is a fuckup, the US knows Canada is a fuckup but what 
> can they
> do. They certainly can't admit that publicly. They can't move Canada out 
> of
> southern Afghanistan, there are NO replacement and it would be a political
> disaster for NATO.
>
> We are fucked.

Let me address your point of view like this. First off, there is a great 
deal of historical support for saying that what you describe could indeed 
happen. For example, in 1941 when the Germans invaded the Soviet Union, the 
Belorussians and Ukrainians, and indeed some of the Great Russians, not to 
mention plenty of the smaller ethnic groups, were falling all over the 
Germans. Within a year or two the Germans had completely alienated the local 
population.

Similarly, the Iraqis aren't as happy in 2006 that the US is in Iraq as they 
were in 2003, and the Afghanis aren't as pleased about the West being there 
now as they were a few years ago.

I don't personally believe that the Afghans are overjoyed that we are there. 
They'd rather that we were not. But I fail to see how you have developed 
this opinion that the Canadians in particular are the worst troops in 
Afghanistan. If anything they are probably among the best troops in theatre.

AHS