🚀 go-pugleaf

Chris Pollard (cpollard@teal.csn.net) wrote:

 >All objects have that capability it's just that they are not as efficient.

That is right.  If you are in need of self defense, you want to have trained
and be able to use the most efficient tool to stop the deadly threat.

 >Having a CCW permit doesn't bother me much - as long as they are for real
 >cases of need.  I believe there are reasonable controls in place and the
 >number issued is low.  I see no extra risk.

Yes, the numbers issued are low, even in "shall-issue" Florida.  It is
less than 1% of the population.  The same is expected here in Colorado.

But how do you determine "real need"?  Most victims never could show "real
need" until after they are dead.

 >: While your concerns are valid concerns, they are unfounded.  There is lots
 >: of facts and figures to suggest quite the opposite.  I would argue that
 >: violent crime is more likely to decrease.

 >I disagree - there are lots of facts and figures that show the opposite.

OK.  Please post any credible citations.  This is the first I have heard
of a study that might show that issuing CCW permits have increased
violence rates.  I am going mostly from the Lott-Mustard study out of the
University of Chicago, and the Kopel-Cramer study from the Independence
Institute here in Colorado.

I would be very surprised because you would have thought the anti-gunners in
talk.politics.guns would have posted those citations a long time ago.

But by all means, show us what you've got.

NB:  The "43:1" study is not credible and is not about CCW.

 >: One does not preclude the other.  Fixing the threat is being dealt with on a
 >: societal level.  Direct personal threats of grievous or deadly violence
 >: can only be dealt with on a personal level.  You are Soley responsible for
 >: your life.  Most times 911 will be too late.

 >"Soley responsible for your life" is not meaningful - are we supposed to
 >walk around in abullet proof cage - this would be the only real deterrent.

First, it *is* meaningful to me; you are responsible because you are the
only one that can be with you at all times.  Yes, bad things can happen, no
matter what you do.  No guarantees.  And a bullet -proof gage is not the
only deterrent.  I'm not sure what point you were trying to make here.

A morsel of "facts and figures":

    The effect of "shall-issue" concealed handgun laws - which give adults
    the right to carry concealed handguns if they do not have a criminal
    record or a history of significant mental illness - has been dramatic.
    Thirty-one states now have such laws.  When states passed them during
    the 19 years we studied, the number of multiple-victim public
    shootings declined by 84%.  Deaths from these shootings plummeted on
    average by 90%, injuries by 82%.  Higher arrest rates and increased
    use of the death penalty slightly reduced the incidence of these
    events, but the effects were never statistically significant.

From the 3/27/98 issue of the WSJ.

I've had to trim boulder.general from this posting because the news server
does not recognize that newsgroup.  I will attempt to follow up by posting
on dejanews, but that will take nearly a week to propagate.

David Post    post@fc.hp.com       These opinions are mine and mine alone.