🚀 go-pugleaf

In some cases there are partial sales tax rebates. I did one a few years go
which had to allow for percentage GST rebates, i. e. 7% tax ... less 68% of
the 7% if ... whatever.

--
Lyle

Tony Toews <ttoews@telusplanet.net> wrote in message
news:370ae220.125055920@news.telusplanet.net...
> Folks
>
> I'm a programmer and I've got to setup some systems to handle sales
> taxes.  So I'd like to setup as complex a system as I'll need right
> now which will last me a long time into the future.   Well, ok, maybe
> only to the next budget in some govt somewhere.  <sigh>
>
> So I'd appreciate some examples from around the world. I'll attempt to
> summarize any responses and post on a website.  With all kinds of
> disclaimers about how this is from a programmers perspective and you
> getta check these out yourself.
>
> Here in Canada we have the federal GST, provincial PST and, in some
> provinces, a harmonized HST which covers both.  So Canadians need two
> tax lines.   If someone is exempt from PST we may need to enter their
> certificate number.  When it comes to GST everyone pays it but, if
> exempt, they claim it back from the govt so it's not the vendors
> problem.  Sometimes the PST is based on the sale amount and other
> provinces the PST is based on both the sale amount and the GST amount.
> What happens if you're in one province with a PST and sell to another
> province with a PST?  (Being in Alberta we have no PST so I haven't
> had to worry about this.)
>
> In the U.S., or so goes my understanding, you can have a state sales
> tax and a city/municipality/county sales tax.   And the sales taxes
> can differ depending on whether you deliver the goods into a different
> city/municipality/county.   Some companies collect sales taxes from
> many states while others only from the state in which they reside.  I
> seem to recall that some states, TX maybe, can have a health or
> hospital district sales tax or a few other levels of sales taxes.
>
> Hows about other countries?
>
> So far it would appear I need only two rows/layers of sales taxes
> although with many different taxing authorities, percentages and the
> odd calculation quirk in each layer.
>
> Are there any websites out there with multi country sales tax
> discussions?
>
> Thanks, Tony
> ----
> Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
> Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
> Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
>    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
> VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or
>    thousands of volunteers for special events.

On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:22:52 GMT, ttoews@telusplanet.net (Tony Toews)
wrote:

>Folks
>
>I'm a programmer and I've got to setup some systems to handle sales
>taxes.  So I'd like to setup as complex a system as I'll need right
>now which will last me a long time into the future.   Well, ok, maybe
>only to the next budget in some govt somewhere.  <sigh>
>
>So I'd appreciate some examples from around the world. I'll attempt to
>summarize any responses and post on a website.  With all kinds of
>disclaimers about how this is from a programmers perspective and you
>getta check these out yourself.

>Hows about other countries?   

The sales tax systems of the US and Canada differ radically from the
Value Added Tax (VAT) system used in the EU member states. The EU has
harmonised the VAT through the so-called Sixth VAT Directive.

The basic feature of the VAT is that tax is charged on all sales,
whether to companies or consumers. The tax paid is deducted from the
tax charged and the surplus is paid to the government. The seller thus
pays tax only on the value he adds to the product; hence Value Added
Tax. The consumer of course cannot deduct any VAT and therefore ends
up with the full tax bill.

The main advantage of the VAT system is that the seller is not
required to keep track of the tax status of the buyer, as is the case
in sales tax systems. The VAT also (in theory) simplifies the task of
the authorities to monitor compliance, since the seller's reported VAT
can be compared to the buyer's invoices. 

The main disadvantage of the VAT is the extra strain it puts on
companies' cashflow. Especially small businesses can experience
problems when they are required to pay VAT on sales for which they
have not yet received payment in cash.

>So far it would appear I need only two rows/layers of sales taxes
>although with many different taxing authorities, percentages and the
>odd calculation quirk in each layer.
>
>Are there any websites out there with multi country sales tax
>discussions?

The big accounting firms, such as Ernst & Young, KPMG, et al., cover
some of these problems on their websites.

>Thanks, Tony

Regards,

Per Andersson
jur kand, LL.M.
Stockholm
Sweden

Per wrote:
> 
> On Wed, 07 Apr 1999 06:22:52 GMT, ttoews@telusplanet.net (Tony Toews)
> wrote:
> 
> >Folks
> >
> >I'm a programmer and I've got to setup some systems to handle sales
> >taxes.  So I'd like to setup as complex a system as I'll need right
> >now which will last me a long time into the future.   Well, ok, maybe
> >only to the next budget in some govt somewhere.  <sigh>
> >
> >So I'd appreciate some examples from around the world. I'll attempt to
> >summarize any responses and post on a website.  With all kinds of
> >disclaimers about how this is from a programmers perspective and you
> >getta check these out yourself.
> 
> >Hows about other countries?
> 
> The sales tax systems of the US and Canada differ radically from the
> Value Added Tax (VAT) system used in the EU member states. The EU has
> harmonised the VAT through the so-called Sixth VAT Directive.
> 
> The basic feature of the VAT is that tax is charged on all sales,
> whether to companies or consumers. The tax paid is deducted from the
> tax charged and the surplus is paid to the government. The seller thus
> pays tax only on the value he adds to the product; hence Value Added
> Tax. The consumer of course cannot deduct any VAT and therefore ends
> up with the full tax bill.
> 
> The main advantage of the VAT system is that the seller is not
> required to keep track of the tax status of the buyer, as is the case
> in sales tax systems. The VAT also (in theory) simplifies the task of
> the authorities to monitor compliance, since the seller's reported VAT
> can be compared to the buyer's invoices.
> 
> The main disadvantage of the VAT is the extra strain it puts on
> companies' cashflow. Especially small businesses can experience
> problems when they are required to pay VAT on sales for which they
> have not yet received payment in cash.
 
Actually, the Canadian Federal Goods & Services Tax/Harmonized Sales Tax
(GST/HST) is a VAT as described above. Only provincial Retail Sales Tax
(PST or RST) is different.

As a result, I wouldn't say Canada is radically different.

Barry Doerbecker	doerbeck@bateman-mackay.com
Staff Accountant
_______
Bateman MacKay Chartered Accountants
Burlington, Ontario, Canada
Focussed on Research & Development Tax Credits
http://www.bateman-mackay.com

Disclaimer:  The views expressed are those of the author, and may not
represent the views of the firm.

I would suggest the client first consult a CPA firm with expertise in
this area, as your client may not be affected by US sales taxes as much
as they may think.
For example, in the US the individual states aren't able to impose a
sales tax on goods shipped in from outside its borders unless the
shipper has what is called 'nexus', or a physical presence, in the
state, e.g. an office or the regular presence of sales or service
personnel. (It is the buyer's responsibility to self-assess a 'use
tax'). Although some states are trying to make an exception on catalog
sales, these attempts have been halted at the Supreme Court level while
others are still in the courts. 
Anyway, some expert advice in this area would be a good precaution.

Tony Toews wrote:
> 
> Folks
> 
> I'm a programmer and I've got to setup some systems to handle sales
> taxes.  So I'd like to setup as complex a system as I'll need right
> now which will last me a long time into the future.   Well, ok, maybe
> only to the next budget in some govt somewhere.  <sigh>
> 
> So I'd appreciate some examples from around the world. I'll attempt to
> summarize any responses and post on a website.  With all kinds of
> disclaimers about how this is from a programmers perspective and you
> getta check these out yourself.
> 
> Here in Canada we have the federal GST, provincial PST and, in some
> provinces, a harmonized HST which covers both.  So Canadians need two
> tax lines.   If someone is exempt from PST we may need to enter their
> certificate number.  When it comes to GST everyone pays it but, if
> exempt, they claim it back from the govt so it's not the vendors
> problem.  Sometimes the PST is based on the sale amount and other
> provinces the PST is based on both the sale amount and the GST amount.
> What happens if you're in one province with a PST and sell to another
> province with a PST?  (Being in Alberta we have no PST so I haven't
> had to worry about this.)
> 
> In the U.S., or so goes my understanding, you can have a state sales
> tax and a city/municipality/county sales tax.   And the sales taxes
> can differ depending on whether you deliver the goods into a different
> city/municipality/county.   Some companies collect sales taxes from
> many states while others only from the state in which they reside.  I
> seem to recall that some states, TX maybe, can have a health or
> hospital district sales tax or a few other levels of sales taxes.
> 
> Hows about other countries?
> 
> So far it would appear I need only two rows/layers of sales taxes
> although with many different taxing authorities, percentages and the
> odd calculation quirk in each layer.
> 
> Are there any websites out there with multi country sales tax
> discussions?
> 
> Thanks, Tony
> ----
> Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
> Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
> Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
>    http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
> VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or
>    thousands of volunteers for special events.

Barry Doerbecker <doerbeck@bateman-mackay.com> wrote:

>Actually, the Canadian Federal Goods & Services Tax/Harmonized Sales Tax
>(GST/HST) is a VAT as described above. Only provincial Retail Sales Tax
>(PST or RST) is different.
>As a result, I wouldn't say Canada is radically different.

Thanks, I was going to say the exact same thing.

Judging from some of the other responses I suspect I'm going to regret
asking the question in the first place.  <sigh>

Tony
----
Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.

Fred Rudolph <ACCOUNTECH@worldnet.att.net> wrote:

>I would suggest the client first consult a CPA firm with expertise in
>this area, as your client may not be affected by US sales taxes as much
>as they may think.

Actually I'm just finishing up one product which may be downloaded by
folks from anywhere in the world and am going to start another
shortly.   And I think some folks in this newsgroup will enjoy that
new product.  <mysterious smile>

So I want to design the products so they're somewhat comprehensive for
anyone to use so I don't get an annoyed email from someone somewhere
and quickly have to throw in some more levels of sales taxes.

IOW I'm the client.  <smile>

Tony
----
Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.

Rather you than me, Tony! I've noticed that most of the big accounting
packages seem to be 'geographically limited'. A lot of the US packages that
I see referred to here in the newsgroup are completely unheard of on this
side of the Atlantic. Others are more 'international', but there are
localised versions produced either by a local branch of the original
developer or a partner. Even if you could come up with a truly international
accounting application, how long would it remain so? As you indicated in
your original post, it would have to be updated every time there was a
government budget anywhere in the world!

The only practical way that I can see is to allow users (or rather,
administrators) to change the tax details as necessary. I'm thinking along
the lines of a lookup table of taxes, including a description and a rate,
that could be updated by an administrator. You'd also need some kind of
table of allowances. Of course in this very simplistic example, a lot of
decisions would have to be made by the user, such as which taxes apply to a
particular transaction. As soon as you start writing in rules to control
those decisions, the app starts to become less internationally flexible.

I certainly don't have any kind of definitive answer on this. I'm just
suggesting that there's a balance to be struck somewhere between two
extremes, with international flexibility at one end of the spectrum and ease
of use and control over input at the other.

--
Brendan Reynolds
brenreyn@indigo.ie

Tony Toews wrote in message <370d8467.77710341@news.telusplanet.net>...
>Fred Rudolph <ACCOUNTECH@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
>>I would suggest the client first consult a CPA firm with expertise in
>>this area, as your client may not be affected by US sales taxes as much
>>as they may think.
>
>Actually I'm just finishing up one product which may be downloaded by
>folks from anywhere in the world and am going to start another
>shortly.   And I think some folks in this newsgroup will enjoy that
>new product.  <mysterious smile>
>
>So I want to design the products so they're somewhat comprehensive for
>anyone to use so I don't get an annoyed email from someone somewhere
>and quickly have to throw in some more levels of sales taxes.
>
>IOW I'm the client.  <smile>
>
>Tony
>----
>Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
>Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
>Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
>   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
>VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or
>   thousands of volunteers for special events.

"Brendan Reynolds" <brenreyn@indigo.ie> wrote:

>Rather you than me, Tony! I've noticed that most of the big accounting
>packages seem to be 'geographically limited'. 

Ayup.  Amazed questions from USians "Postal code is alphanumeric?".
And then with all those strange variable length and format phone
numbers from outside North America?  Not a clue.  Of course the USians
spell cheque totally wrong.

>Even if you could come up with a truly international
>accounting application, how long would it remain so? As you indicated in
>your original post, it would have to be updated every time there was a
>government budget anywhere in the world!

Actually not accounting systems but invoicing systems.  Hence my
concern is only with sales taxes.

>The only practical way that I can see is to allow users (or rather,
>administrators) to change the tax details as necessary. I'm thinking along
>the lines of a lookup table of taxes, including a description and a rate,
>that could be updated by an administrator. 

Exactly.  

>You'd also need some kind of table of allowances. 

Allowances.

>Of course in this very simplistic example, a lot of
>decisions would have to be made by the user, such as which taxes apply to a
>particular transaction. 

Correct.  I was going to have line by line defaults and overall
defaults but allow anyone to override anything at all.  And I was
going to put an "O" beside each line which was overridden so someone
looking at it later, ie a tax auditor, could easily pick out the
differences.

>As soon as you start writing in rules to control
>those decisions, the app starts to become less internationally flexible.

Understood but no control.  Just defaults.

>I certainly don't have any kind of definitive answer on this. I'm just
>suggesting that there's a balance to be struck somewhere between two
>extremes, with international flexibility at one end of the spectrum and ease
>of use and control over input at the other.

I'm going to assume in my apps that the data entry folks aren't
minimum wage "Would you like fries with that?" type of people.  <sigh>

Tony
----
Message posted to newsgroup and, if appropriate, emailed.
Tony Toews, Independent Computer Consultant
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at 
   http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
VolStar http://www.volstar.com Manage hundreds or 
   thousands of volunteers for special events.