🚀 go-pugleaf

RetroBBS NetNews Server

Inspired by RockSolid Light RIP Retro Guy

2 total messages Started by Jacob Hirbawi Wed, 07 Oct 1992 21:33
Re: Optimizing frequency reolution with DFT
#1223
Author: Jacob Hirbawi
Date: Wed, 07 Oct 1992 21:33
52 lines
2700 bytes
In comp.dsp, <dak.718418083@messua>
David Kastrup , <dak@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> writes:

> sjreeves@eng.auburn.edu (Stan Reeves) writes:
>
>  >In order to optimize the tradeoff between main lobe width and side lobe
>  >height, one has to have a criterion.  Do you want more resolution and more
>  >variance or do you want less variance and less resolution?  I suppose that
>  >one could come up with a criterion based on expected mean-square error
>  >between the estimated and actual power spectrum, but I don't know of any
>  >neat closed-form expressions for this.

> Well, if you define bandwidth (and timespread) as the variance of a
> similar-spread probability density function, you get a sort of
> square mean error. The product of the time width and the bandwidth
> is limited downwards, it cannot get better than an optimum, that is
> provided by a gaussian curve which again transforms into a Gaussian
> in the frequency domain. You cannot get any better, but this is definitely
> a closed-form expression. So mean square criterions will not get you
> too far, but will show you the direction.

This is all very true for the measures of optimality you have described.
There are at least three differnet sets of parameters that we often deal
with in this kind of work; I think it will be helpful to list them here:

     (1.1) minimize time-domain "variance"
     (1.2) minimize frequency-domain "variance"

     (2.1) minimize mainlobe width
     (2.2) minimize sidelobe level

     (3.1) maximize energy within a time interval  
     (3.2) maximize energy within a freuquency band

In the first case where "variance" of a function is defined by

                       <x^2> - <x>^2  

where < H > is defined as: integral(  H f(x) f^*(x) dx  ).
Then the optimal functions are in fact as you have noted guassian.
(please excuse the mixing up of continuous functions with discrete windows)

In the second case, if I remember right, the Tchebychev windows actually
minimize mainlobe width for a given sidelobe level. There is definitely 
a closed form solution for these.

In the third case the optimal functions are Prolate Spheroidal functions
which are approximated by Kaiser-Bessel windows; these windows also have a
closed form solution.

Jacob Hirbawi
JcbHrb@CERF.net
Re: Optimizing frequency reolution with DFT
#1238
Author: Joe Campbell
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 1992 18:49
73 lines
3827 bytes
In article <3061@news.cerf.net> jcbhrb@nic.cerf.net (Jacob Hirbawi) writes:
>In comp.dsp, <dak.718418083@messua>
>David Kastrup , <dak@messua.informatik.rwth-aachen.de> writes:
>
>> sjreeves@eng.auburn.edu (Stan Reeves) writes:
>>
>>  >In order to optimize the tradeoff between main lobe width and side lobe
>>  >height, one has to have a criterion.  Do you want more resolution and more
>>  >variance or do you want less variance and less resolution?  I suppose that
>>  >one could come up with a criterion based on expected mean-square error
>>  >between the estimated and actual power spectrum, but I don't know of any
>>  >neat closed-form expressions for this.
>
>> Well, if you define bandwidth (and timespread) as the variance of a
>> similar-spread probability density function, you get a sort of
>> square mean error. The product of the time width and the bandwidth
>> is limited downwards, it cannot get better than an optimum, that is
>> provided by a gaussian curve which again transforms into a Gaussian
>> in the frequency domain. You cannot get any better, but this is definitely
>> a closed-form expression. So mean square criterions will not get you
>> too far, but will show you the direction.
>
>This is all very true for the measures of optimality you have described.
>There are at least three differnet sets of parameters that we often deal
>with in this kind of work; I think it will be helpful to list them here:
>
>     (1.1) minimize time-domain "variance"
>     (1.2) minimize frequency-domain "variance"
>
>     (2.1) minimize mainlobe width
>     (2.2) minimize sidelobe level
>
>     (3.1) maximize energy within a time interval  
>     (3.2) maximize energy within a freuquency band
>
>In the first case where "variance" of a function is defined by
>
>                       <x^2> - <x>^2  
>
>where < H > is defined as: integral(  H f(x) f^*(x) dx  ).
>Then the optimal functions are in fact as you have noted guassian.
>(please excuse the mixing up of continuous functions with discrete windows)
>
>In the second case, if I remember right, the Tchebychev windows actually
>minimize mainlobe width for a given sidelobe level. There is definitely 
>a closed form solution for these.
>
>In the third case the optimal functions are Prolate Spheroidal functions
>which are approximated by Kaiser-Bessel windows; these windows also have a
>closed form solution.
>
>Jacob Hirbawi
>JcbHrb@CERF.net

I'd like to add my favorite window design criterion:

Lineu C. Barbosa, "A Maximum-Energy-Concentration Spectral Window,"
IBM J. Res. Develop., Vol. 30, No. 3, May 1986, p. 321-325.
An elegant method for designing a time-discrete solution for
realization of a spectral window which is ideal from an energy
concentration viewpoint.  This window is one that concentrates the
maximum amount of energy in a specified bandwidth and hence provides
optimal spectral resolution.  Unlike Kaiser windows, this window is
a discrete-time realization having the same objectives as the
continuous-time prolate spheroidal function; at the expense of not
having a closed form solution.

Joe
-- 
.............................................................................
; Joe Campbell  N3JBC  jpcampb@afterlife.ncsc.mil  74040.305@compuserve.com ;
; My opinions are mine!   Happiness = Reality - Expectations, Click & Clack ;
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Thread Navigation

This is a paginated view of messages in the thread with full content displayed inline.

Messages are displayed in chronological order, with the original post highlighted in green.

Use pagination controls to navigate through all messages in large threads.

Back to All Threads